Great example of why free loot leagues need to go and the impact of Perandus.

Agree with the OP and most of what follow, like sidtherat's post, largely.
"You will slay a rogue exile that will only drop rare items" I was like "WHAT THE FUCK ?!"
I was introducing the game to a friend and I told her "see ? that's just BS, rare items are just becoming too comon ....".

"

kuukkeli wrote:

The issue with Prophecies is that it forces players to spend even more time in irrelevant content. It's kind of weird that the whole challenge league revolves around randomly forcing players to run zones ~20 levels lower than they'd run otherwise.

It doesn't

You can always seal the prophecy if you do not want to spend time in "irrelevant content".

Please stop the nonsense about fixing powercreep with disallowing trade.
The game has been designed around trade, it will always be there because all the RnG has always been balanced around it.
Power creep os another story, that needs other "fix".

"

Waves_blade wrote:

I could have done several uberzaro runs or a few maps in that timeframe.

Let me rephrase this :
"I could have ran a few maps, and therefore got a few coins to seal it and throw it, but I chose to do the prophecy instead".


For the "Cadiro did not give very good cheap unique arguments" :
I got one Tabula at less than 200 coins.
I got another tabula at like 800 coins.
I got a belly of the beast at like 1200 coins.
Those are already good enough items, and that was a damn cheap price.
And it's not the same as buying them by trade, because you did get the coins anyway if you were not skipping the chests.

The only GG uniques i got were 2 clear minds, 2 gold rims, 1 rats nest (which i gave away) and singularity mace

"

sidtherat wrote:

at first it was:
no loot / hard game
no loot / hard game but more map content
some extra loot BUT walking disguised as exiles and requiring a kill. many died trying to get that loot
then we've got more and more loot gated behind less and less challenging content

then we've crossed the Rubicon: SUPER EXTREME ULTRA GOOD loot for.. free. (thats Perandus btw)

there is no turning back. people are already whining that Prophecies 'have no rewards'. well guys.. if everyone gets it for free - then it is worthless. thats first. and second - you play for fun? or for pixel rewards? if you do not have fun because game is not giving you free pixels i strongly suggest taking a step back and looking at your life as there is something seriously wrong going on there.

another sign of the crowd that makes up most of poe' playerbase (entitled and demanding) is the group confusing 'hand out' and 'a reward for a challenge' (ascendancy points + the lab). they do not like doing lab (fine, anyone can do that) but because they do not like doing it - they want the reward for free (no - making it a map filled with monsters you can mindlessly right click with your dps is NOT an alternative. it is asking for free points AND free xp to boot..)



so let us all prepare for more demands. demands that ggg is most probably already forced to accept and deliver - their customers changed (not without ggg strong guidance) so the game is changing too because ggg needs their customers more than customers need ggg (most are short-term players anyway)

I do think you are right, but the most annoying thing to me is the lower rate of XP, which for a casual player (that by the way, enjoys high difficulty, but real difficulty, not "jackass" problems regarding disconnects/lag/low FPS due to optimization difficulties, one shotting that can't be avoided no matter your game playing skill/time invested in a character), is making the character creation and replaying the same game again very underwhelming.

As others, I just don't appreciate the focus on just the leagues, while Standard has seen only the "middle finger" for a while (I love the mechanic of Prophecy and I do hope it gets added to Standard)...

I am seriously pissed that the traps are more unforgiving that monsters (it should be other way around, and I absolutely hate that I can't damage them >.< ), and I know the whole idea was that the Labyrinth must be unforgiving thanks to all the macro ALT+F4 disconnects, but specializing your character became mandatory and not merely optional from lots of casual player views, and implementing them as such is not a best idea - if they really wanted to go with traps, they should have change the whole game design to keep them everywhere and give a harsher vibe to the casuals that this is not the game for them.

I suggested a while back that the game need to up the difficulty, and even make the 10% XP loss standard for the softcore (heck, right now they should just use a de-leveling mechanic for them to negate part of the power creep), to encourage players to better balance the builds, but they are going for the casual crowd and as casuals we just want to have the same fun at level 1 or 100, during the ride with our characters.

It seems that more changes are needed, but GGG just reaped what it sowed, they invited casuals full in and now the either have to adjust to keep them, or let them go their merry way...

"

Dawmz wrote:

I don't understand why they moved from the original challenge league design : a SC league with free candy and a HC league with added difficulty. Everyone could get what they wanted : a harder challenge or more free stuff. These new unified "challenge" leagues aren't challenging at all, Standard is actually harder than prophecy right now... I'm still playing it because fresh econ and all, but I'd love to get some difficulty back. Maybe GGG could consider keeping the same league but add a rotating mod on the hc version like onslaught/beyond, I don't know. But something has to be done.

I think they realized that if they want to keep running 4 leagues per year that they can't afford to come up with 8 good new ideas every calendar. Cutting that in half keeps them employed X more years than it otherwise might. I agree with you on both counts though. There's something just right about a free candy SC and a challenge mode HC.

One way they could use the same mechanic but make HC harder is, for example,

'You will kill a foe who summons a Warband on death'

SC

Zone level 1-70, Tier 1 Warbands (see wiki for more info)
Zone level 70 - 75, Tier 2 Warbands
Zone level 76+, Tier 3 Warbands with a 33% chance to upgrade to Tier 4 (the ones with a Unique Boss Fighter/Leader)

HC

Normal, Tier 1 Warbands
Cruel, Tier 1 WB
Merciless, Tier 2 WB
Zone level 71-76, Tier 3 WB
Zone level 77+, always Tier 4 Warband

The problem is not that you can easily obtain a Tabula Rasa, but that a Tabula can easily carry you to mid-endgame. The game is completely unthreatening until 77+ maps and that's the thing that should be corrected, not the availability of loot.

An ARPG without loot makes no sense and I'm glad that there is prob. no way back to the loot starved OB era. Well maybe through "paid leagues" - if someone will pay to have to flip-flop on poe.trade all day.

I don't understand why you talk about "casual players" as if they are the scum of the earth for wanting more loot. Personally I think this league's mechanics are boring. Not because of lack of loot. Hell...loot is way more affordable then in previous leagues (other than perandus). Even FOTM build items (i.e. abyssus) can be found for 2 ex or less which is very affordable for the common player imo.

The fact is that this game, for a LONG time, got a reputation of having NO LOOT AT ALL. Players felt as if they were grinding for byzantine currency and then forced to search a web auction house for whatever they want. To be fair that is EXACTLY what poe was. With the recent changes to unique drop rates (mid-level not uber rare) this game has become more accessible for more players. Customer accessibility of content is probably one of GGG's most bittersweet enemies. They need and want new players...but they don't want to drastically change the hardcore aspect of the game.

Their answer? Give out more uniques...but put the Labyrinth in that is more unforgiving and requires skill... AND PEOPLE STILL BITCHED.

Now would perandus be boring in every league? Hell yes he would. It is nice to have to earn/find some loot you need for builds. That being said, however, Prophecy still is annoying. Most players HATE backtracking. Especially those that have played this game for years and are "old dogs trying to be taught new tricks" like myself.... back on topic...

I think it is okay for players to miss Cadiro. There is nothing wrong with admitting that a player enjoyed a past league or any of its elements including "free loot".

You guys need to jump off your high horse and realize that the founders of this game (including yourself probably) that donated lots of money helped to create A GREAT FOUNDATION for this game. That doesn't mean that the game can never change and older players should be entitled to be stubborn about a changing game.

Your chastising a bunch of random people on reddit really for no reason other than the fact that they miss an old league with fun mechanics (at the time).

Grow up mate, seriously lol.

i have no problem with game changing. it is not the game i wanted when i SUPPORTED it. thats why there is only one tag beneath my name despite having bought more packs. because since my and ggg's visions split i PAY for a product (good product but not one i would like to SUPPORT). it is a subtle thing many do not care but this distinction is important for me so i made it


on topic

game changed, im cool with that. however there is a thing called slippery slope.

if the game is getting easier each league (it sure does) and the loot is freely available (it really is) where is the limit? (hyperbole) the 'i win' button?
because this is what people want saying when something does not reward them instantly with better, gooder, uber 'thing'. thing that they do not need anyway as they are already one shoting screens. but they still demand rewards.. what for?


game has to have a challenge in it to be still A GAME. ever tried to play basketball alone? it is not a game, there is no opposition, no challenge. it gets boring quickly, very quickly

current POE is constantly closing to the point where it is no longer a GAME but 'self esteem boost'. people that need this kind of stuff need constant stimulation so they will leave to new and stronger 'im amazing' games.

so going down the slippery slope might attract some customers (short-attention-span customers) but in the end there would be simply no way of making game EVEN EASIER. whats next then? make game harder then? no way - people are already throwing tantrums on insignificant Shield Charge nerfs (oooooo unplayhabyle!! *babyragequit). it is most likely too late already (just check the 'i hate the lab, give me its rewards for free!' thread) but making it even easier is just shooting oneself in the foot. twice.

"

sidtherat wrote:

i have no problem with game changing. it is not the game i wanted when i SUPPORTED it. thats why there is only one tag beneath my name despite having bought more packs. because since my and ggg's visions split i PAY for a product (good product but not one i would like to SUPPORT). it is a subtle thing many do not care but this distinction is important for me so i made it


on topic

game changed, im cool with that. however there is a thing called slippery slope.

if the game is getting easier each league (it sure does) and the loot is freely available (it really is) where is the limit? (hyperbole) the 'i win' button?
because this is what people want saying when something does not reward them instantly with better, gooder, uber 'thing'. thing that they do not need anyway as they are already one shoting screens. but they still demand rewards.. what for?


game has to have a challenge in it to be still A GAME. ever tried to play basketball alone? it is not a game, there is no opposition, no challenge. it gets boring quickly, very quickly

current POE is constantly closing to the point where it is no longer a GAME but 'self esteem boost'. people that need this kind of stuff need constant stimulation so they will leave to new and stronger 'im amazing' games.

so going down the slippery slope might attract some customers (short-attention-span customers) but in the end there would be simply no way of making game EVEN EASIER. whats next then? make game harder then? no way - people are already throwing tantrums on insignificant Shield Charge nerfs (oooooo unplayhabyle!! *babyragequit). it is most likely too late already (just check the 'i hate the lab, give me its rewards for free!' thread) but making it even easier is just shooting oneself in the foot. twice.

I would say be more angry at the 6-8 ascendancy points for this game being easy. It is the culprit more than "free loot". You can smash maps in this game with all rares, res cap, and ascendancy points. Those are all you need. That's not a problem with "free stuff being given away". That's a problem with improper game difficulty/scaling.

You're blaming the wrong issue for your complaint. A Shav's doesn't make a player instantly GG...to be honest most players probably don't even know how to use a shav's effectively. It's the power creep that is making the game easy. NOT LOOT.

the loot plays it's part too. it is ofc not all that is needed (EQ works because it is like twice as strong as other melee skills..) but loot makes some stuff possible that wasnt before and the loot in question is 'uniques'.

Marohi', Primacy, Doomsower etc are all uniques that roll better than 95% of the rares. and are good enough to tackle any content. if one can buy these for 1alch (and this is possible because of how effective trading is in this game).. same applies to other slots.

but yes - ascendancies made game a cake walk and yes i just hate how easy the game is and how it is so MUCH MORE EASY to play FOTM build.

this difference between FOTM and classic build is just too big for a quality game. it is just bad craftsmanship.

"

sidtherat wrote:

Marohi', Primacy, Doomsower etc are all uniques that roll better than 95% of the rares. and are good enough to tackle any content. if one can buy these for 1alch (and this is possible because of how effective trading is in this game).. same applies to other slots.

This exactly, yet still majority of these people complain about Cadiro. Poe.trade and public stash tabs have created majority of the power creep (these days you can buy items that were priced in exalts 2-3 years ago for few chaos). Ascendancy classes come third in my opinion.

I've spent about 10c this league and my gear will carry me into mid tier maps. Then I'll spend couple of exalts and be ready for the end game. 99.9% of my loot is vendor trash but it doesn't matter because tons of good items I need drop every single day and people just dump them in their public tabs. Only the "BiS" items cost something but "good enough" stuff is practically free.

Don't get me wrong though. If there's trading I'd prefer it to be easy (either trading disabled or fully automatized auction house). I'm just pointing out that majority of people complaining about "free loot" either don't understand what they're saying or are just worried about their wealth in this new, devalued economy.