naming and shaming scammers, im very upset.

You have appointed yourself as a "speaker of the community"? Sound like a politician. In that case, I'm speaking for the 820 community that actually supports the makers of the game and respects what they have to say. There is nothing you could post here that could prove in a single broken rotation, that this player or anyone else was a scammer. Unless of course you happened to find him in another group right after the one in question. Period. To say otherwise is pure conjecture. My argument is simply to stand up for law and order, due process and respect for authority. Your assertion that the admins cant legally investigate suspected shady activity is a lie. It's their game, their servers, their rules, and they reserve the right to act as they see fit. You got probably one guy on your team, the angry, disgruntled finger pointing OP. Frankly, what makes 820 great is the fact that the vast majority of it's members are kindhearted and generous. Where's your benefit of doubt? A single broken rotation a week after new content? I'm sure everyone reading this has had not only DC's, but freeze-ups! That will leave you appearing to be online long after your crash. Don't trash the mods. Leave 820 if you're looking for reasons to be angry and won't respect the admins.

as silumit said, no one was "whining". i couldnt care less that some noob leeched a rotation, because 820 has a means to deal with it. we inform other people, and he cant do that anymore! case closed, no one is "mad", "whiny", "salty", or whatever. i dont expect ggg to protect me because i can do it myself. but i dont expect ggg to attack me either, that is the part that annoys me

and without "speakers of the community", we are all but a bunch of sheep without any voice. and of course you have the right to have your own opinion, and we can disagree. but no authority is always correct, no matter how high ranked it is. mistakes happen, and when they do, a true authority would come up and say "okay, i fucked up, i am sorry for mistreating you, it wont happen again". THAT would make me respect it. this doesnt.

as i wrote, all the rotation and services stuff people come up with ingame is pure artificial and community driven.

there is no other authority to control the schemes than the community itself. ggg didn't invent master rotations nor support it in any way.

these community events only work if a majority of players obeyes the rules, if there are too many players abusing the scheme, nobody will paticipate.

so i can sort of understand your point of trying to enforce the rules, but it finds it's limits when players get called out without you having definite proof of them abusin the system. and even then, who are you to tell them how to play the game?

the only thing you can legally do is make a note for yourself to not play with these guys anymore. then you will quickly realize it's a useless practice to witchhunt in a game with anonymous accounts, welcome in the club!

the easiest solution is still to only play with players you trust, guilds were especially made for organizing communities, please use them.

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vio wrote:

as i wrote, all the rotation and services stuff people come up with ingame is pure artificial and community driven.

there is no other authority to control the schemes than the community itself. ggg didn't invent master rotations nor support it in any way.

these community events only work if a majority of players obeyes the rules, if there are too many players abusing the scheme, nobody will paticipate.

so i can sort of understand your point of trying to enforce the rules, but it finds it's limits when players get called out without you having definite proof of them abusin the system. and even then, who are you to tell them how to play the game?

the only thing you can legally do is make a note for yourself to not play with these guys anymore. then you will quickly realize it's a useless practice to witchhunt in a game with anonymous accounts, welcome in the club!

the easiest solution is still to only play with players you trust, guilds were especially made for organizing communities, please use them.

since you see this, you can probably see that GGG's actions actually ENCOURAGE people to abuse the scheme, while it was nearly impossible before. before this, you abuse it a few times, get reported and on everyone's ignorelist, and you cant do shit about it anymore! it worked, and everyone who uses 820 will tell you the same thing. our rules WORKED, thats how 820 became popular in the first place!

my point is: yeah once in a while, very very rarely, our rules fail and you get on someone's ignorelist because you were in the wrong party that decided to report you for some reason. but if we cant "name and shame" scammers, the rules wont fail rarely, but often. this is a good example of choosing the lesser evil, and it is obvious what is the lesser evil here

and just 1 more thing, im telling no one how to play the game1 they can play with no morale at all, they are allowed to scam. but when they do, i also want to be allowed to report them!

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hideouts wrote:

since you see this, you can probably see that GGG's actions actually ENCOURAGE people to abuse the scheme, while it was nearly impossible before.

no. you can name and shame on reddit or build external tools to build ignore lists (i'm sure people did that already).

you're free to do all that. my only concern is that this is discriminating players who maybe did nothing wrong. and that they have no chance to avoid being wrongly hindered playing the game to it's full extent by contacting the creators of this game.

and i know many cases of hardliners who always tell "if you're sticking to the rules nothing bad will happen to you" until they experience otherwise.

most inflexible systems you propose are prone to be abused, be it by people exploiting others by blackmailing or (as an imaginary example) ultra hardliners who got immense power by being able to remove your item listings from external trade tools after a misconfiguration on your side...

as soon as the systems in place aren't tolerant to mistakes people make, they're exclusive. i just don't like these systems as i want others to tolerate my mistakes same as i tolerate theirs.

I most times agree with GGG methods, but not in this case. I don't see 820 as just a random public chat. I see it as created for a specific purpose and that should be allowed to police itself. Sure game crashed happen. But what's to prevent somebody from leeching rotations on purpose? How many times will they get away with it before GGG does something? They gave us an ignore list because they know there is a need for it. And in this case they aren't letting nature take its course.

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vio wrote:

so, when i join a rotation and in the middle real life duties calls i either leave the party or go offline (depending on the urgency).

Nobody cares about your real life duties. In the odd chance that you need to leave in the middle of a rota, you open your daily, say "go on without me" and leave the computer with your char logged in. You can do at least that, unless your house is on fire or something.

Naming scammers was always a part of 820 channel. I'm dissapointed if GGG now started to police this. (yeah, it's all in their right to do whatever they want, I know...)

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mark1030 wrote:

They gave us an ignore list because they know there is a need for it. And in this case they aren't letting nature take its course.

so, the ignore list doesn't help against leechers?



the policy to prevent naming and shaming in official channels serves exactly one purpose: people who want to blame others need to communicate with external tools.

and the effort to setup these tools and run them results in the desired effect: pushing the "min maxers" and "paranoid about losing some master xp because of one leecher" people into communities of trust where they're among themselves and do no harm to normal and tolerant players by executing permanent witch hunts in official channels which could scare off new players trying to do that for the first time.

it's a game for god's sake (that coming from a agnostic!) which is even a non-competitional one after ggg carefully killed it.

"

vio wrote:

"

mark1030 wrote:

They gave us an ignore list because they know there is a need for it. And in this case they aren't letting nature take its course.

so, the ignore list doesn't help against leechers?

Not if they don't let people tell me who the leechers are.

Edit: This is a unique case. This channel was made by a specific community for a specific purpose. You're talking like it's going into global 1 and naming/shaming. Nobody accidentally comes to global 820. It's not a default channel. There are not 819 full channels ahead that would put random people into 820. Sometimes they should let the community police itself.

Well, that pm from support is ridiculous. Its not shaming, if hes guilty of scamming rota. And he was, obviously. Ppl in 820 wants to know actual scammers names, otherwise that scammer will scam as many rotas, as he wants.

If scamming is allowed by ggg (and it is, and im ok with it) we HAVE TO have way dealing with them. Thats really simple. If his feelings r hurt, then... so what? What about scammed ppl?

Seriously ggg, that PM was ridiculous and inappropriate at the same time.