Majority of players play in temporary leagues, not standard.
I do not see how standard economy is relevant, it is a league where everything ends up in.
Even without divination cards it goes to say that when you have an infinite supply of items during the course of item economy will fluctuate.
Not sure how you posting a 6L regalia with 900+ ES is relevant because:
1. The card for a 6L vaal regalia drops only in the Apex of Sacrifice
2. It's drop rate isn't high
3. You still have to spend sometimes a shitload of chaos orbs to get anything decent out of it
I never said 6L was mandatory, but it certainly is endgame. Having access to full link combination sounds rather endgame to me.
Whether the game content is easy enough to be passed with a 4/5L is irrelevant, a 6th link can in some cases be a utility and not a DPS gem and open up more builds.
The whole premise that a 6L is luxury is baffling to me, it shouldn't be.
If the players damage is out of whack because of a 6th link then I would rather they tone down player damage rather than make a 6L happen once in a blue moon.
Again trading in the Dapper Prodigy / Chains that Bind can result in a useless base item so it is therefore balanced by that, the Justicar is probably too easy to obtain.
by all means i shouldnt have gotten such an item but now its possible, and i dont like it(i know its ironic but what else do i look forward to after such chestpiece?)
What you and Snorkle are suffering from is cognitive dissonance. The increasing availability of 6-links is challenging a perception GGG has created by training you. Yes, we're all in a Skinner box.
This perception is not one that any new player shares, by the way. People learn to think of 6-links as extremely rare and valuable based on experience. The driver is of course RNG. But I think GGG has realised over the past year or so that people are arguing for determinism for a good reason. That being, it facilitates a game that feels more generally rewarding but yes, has fewer extremes. The one that more people enjoy playing (as proven by Perandus).
Let me flip this around for you both by asking two questions:
- how many hours a day should a person be expected to play during any given three month league?
- using an expected average of 900 fuses and the average playtime you think is reasonable, how quickly should a 6-link occur based on natural drops and masters/vendor conversions for any given player on average during the life of a league? 2 weeks in? 6 weeks?
Note in relation to the second question that you can discount trading because that is a zero-sum concept. It makes no difference how quickly you can trade to get 900 fuses because your gain (in fuses) is someone's loss and doesn't change how many fuses are available globally to attempt to 6-link an item.
I can pretty much guarantee that either your answer to question 1 won't reflect the amount of time most gamers have to play (and a company's gotta make money ergo has to cater to that audience to some degree) or won't reflect the amount of drops that are likely to occur. Because you play a lot, and the game has in the past rewarded you substantially more as a result (the trading system creates an exponential gain per extra hour per day played in early leagues but it would be greater than linear even in standard).
Last edited by davidnn5 on May 24, 2016, 7:57:44 PM
by all means i shouldnt have gotten such an item but now its possible, and i dont like it(i know its ironic but what else do i look forward to after such chestpiece?)
What you and Snorkle are suffering from is cognitive dissonance. The increasing availability of 6-links is challenging a perception GGG has created by training you. Yes, we're all in a Skinner box.
This perception is not one that any new player shares, by the way. People learn to think of 6-links as extremely rare and valuable based on experience. The driver is of course RNG. But I think GGG has realised over the past year or so that people are arguing for determinism for a good reason. That being, it facilitates a game that feels more generally rewarding but yes, has fewer extremes. The one that more people enjoy playing (as proven by Perandus).
Let me flip this around for you both by asking two questions:
- how many hours a day should a person be expected to play during any given three month league?
- using an expected average of 900 fuses and the average playtime you think is reasonable, how quickly should a 6-link occur based on natural drops and masters/vendor conversions for any given player on average during the life of a league? 2 weeks in? 6 weeks?
Note in relation to the second question that you can discount trading because that is a zero-sum concept. It makes no difference how quickly you can trade to get 900 fuses because your gain (in fuses) is someone's loss and doesn't change how many fuses are available globally to attempt to 6-link an item.
I can pretty much guarantee that either your answer to question 1 won't reflect the amount of time most gamers have to play (and a company's gotta make money ergo has to cater to that audience to some degree) or won't reflect the amount of drops that are likely to occur. Because you play a lot, and the game has in the past rewarded you substantially more as a result (the trading system creates an exponential gain per extra hour per day played in early leagues but it would be greater than linear even in standard).
I had tabula in same day after hitting 60 off 20c
I had this like a week in off like 90c not 900 fuse
(granted shitty rolls but I only throw 5c at it)
thats the issue. not the bonafide "hard way" of 900-1500 fuse
I'm pretty casual. like 2-3 hrs a day and 8 hrs on weekend and have no trouble getting 1500 fuse in 2 month just off vorcici daily + casual farm
that appropriate IMO
I didnt even play this ladder for two 3 week sessions. Was in costa rica for 3 weeks and working too much other 3 weeks and have 1700 fuse now.
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on May 24, 2016, 9:58:40 PM
Aim: My point was exactly that. Whether you're average or not in terms of time played per day (I strongly suspect not), by your numbers you would normally be expected to take 1.2 (900 fuses) to 2 (1500) months of a 3 month league to get a six link. I.e. most of the league may be over and you may well have quit that character.
Yes, this change makes achieving a 6-link quicker. The first question is, by how much on average? Do we actually know? How many people actually got one within a week? What about if we exclude tabulas? How many people left the league without a 6-link at all?
Next question is if you can get to maps within a day or two, why shouldn't a 6-link be achievable in a week? Should 6-links be level-gated somehow? What minimum level would you set? 90? 95? 99?
In that sense, your personal experience means little to nothing. It's about the broader playerbase. To reiterate, trading doesn't in any way change the theoretical amount of 6-links cards *can* add into the mix. It simply changes your personal timing for getting a 6-link.
Last edited by davidnn5 on May 24, 2016, 10:29:38 PM
by all means i shouldnt have gotten such an item but now its possible, and i dont like it(i know its ironic but what else do i look forward to after such chestpiece?)
What you and Snorkle are suffering from is cognitive dissonance. The increasing availability of 6-links is challenging a perception GGG has created by training you. Yes, we're all in a Skinner box.
This perception is not one that any new player shares, by the way. People learn to think of 6-links as extremely rare and valuable based on experience. The driver is of course RNG. But I think GGG has realised over the past year or so that people are arguing for determinism for a good reason. That being, it facilitates a game that feels more generally rewarding but yes, has fewer extremes. The one that more people enjoy playing (as proven by Perandus).
Let me flip this around for you both by asking two questions:
- how many hours a day should a person be expected to play during any given three month league?
- using an expected average of 900 fuses and the average playtime you think is reasonable, how quickly should a 6-link occur based on natural drops and masters/vendor conversions for any given player on average during the life of a league? 2 weeks in? 6 weeks?
Note in relation to the second question that you can discount trading because that is a zero-sum concept. It makes no difference how quickly you can trade to get 900 fuses because your gain (in fuses) is someone's loss and doesn't change how many fuses are available globally to attempt to 6-link an item.
I can pretty much guarantee that either your answer to question 1 won't reflect the amount of time most gamers have to play (and a company's gotta make money ergo has to cater to that audience to some degree) or won't reflect the amount of drops that are likely to occur. Because you play a lot, and the game has in the past rewarded you substantially more as a result (the trading system creates an exponential gain per extra hour per day played in early leagues but it would be greater than linear even in standard).
You're making too many assumptions there.
Firstly, you think that i think i should never get such an item. It wasnt that what bothered me, it was the price point. Its all relative to one another, overflow of 6 links devalue the great stuff. At the end noone will never use a mirror on a chest piece. But i know people always want instant gratification when they can. If someone offered gave you 1000exalts how many players do you think would refuse? Same drive here. Secondly, are you Chris wilson to say you know what they intended with the changes game had over time? Sometimes people mess up, most of the time in a game when a dev adds something it'll have unforseen consequences, who's to say these are not? Speculation is worthless.
for the answers to your question, i dont expect regular players to play more than couple hours a day. Their ability to get great 6 links should always depend on how well they can play the economy game, as it always had. Its not about time spent, its about how cleverly you use it. After all leagues are a race hence the leaderboards and the limited time. If you are better than average, you'll get your 6 link during race season, if not buy a tabula or make do with 5link. You dont have to have a 6l to access all content but if you do feel that, there is an option which doesnt destroy economy. After all if tabula becomes excess it'll be turned to divine, cheaper the divine is more of them will be used thus equilibrium.
Last edited by Fistaniderya on May 24, 2016, 10:48:15 PM
Aim: My point was exactly that. Whether you're average or not in terms of time played per day (I strongly suspect not), by your numbers you would normally be expected to take 1.2 (900 fuses) to 2 (1500) months of a 3 month league to get a six link. I.e. most of the league may be over and you may well have quit that character.
Yes, this change makes achieving a 6-link quicker. The first question is, by how much on average? Do we actually know? How many people actually got one within a week? What about if we exclude tabulas? How many people left the league without a 6-link at all?
Next question is if you can get to maps within a day or two, why shouldn't a 6-link be achievable in a week? Should 6-links be level-gated somehow? What minimum level would you set? 90? 95? 99?
In that sense, your personal experience means little to nothing. It's about the broader playerbase. To reiterate, trading doesn't in any way change the theoretical amount of 6-links cards *can* add into the mix. It simply changes your personal timing for getting a 6-link.
In standard things things devalued greatly enough that people now SKIP 5links on chests at the very least. This should never ever happen, its there for a reason. And the cause of this is cheap 6 links. People sell ok-ish 6links for 1-1.5ex which is very reachable amount for any player. You can argue about the timing etc but this is the problem here, natural item progression is disappearing now.
Aim: My point was exactly that. Whether you're average or not in terms of time played per day (I strongly suspect not), by your numbers you would normally be expected to take 1.2 (900 fuses) to 2 (1500) months of a 3 month league to get a six link. I.e. most of the league may be over and you may well have quit that character.
Yes, this change makes achieving a 6-link quicker. The first question is, by how much on average? Do we actually know? How many people actually got one within a week? What about if we exclude tabulas? How many people left the league without a 6-link at all?
Next question is if you can get to maps within a day or two, why shouldn't a 6-link be achievable in a week? Should 6-links be level-gated somehow? What minimum level would you set? 90? 95? 99?
In that sense, your personal experience means little to nothing. It's about the broader playerbase. To reiterate, trading doesn't in any way change the theoretical amount of 6-links cards *can* add into the mix. It simply changes your personal timing for getting a 6-link.
You make some good points especially about being in maps then a week later 6L is appropriate. My only point is the ease these cards give 6L compared to bonafide 6Linking is out of whack weather you trade or not (since it's about 12 hour grind in crypt to get 6 cards, ive done it that way before, no trade) well 1500 or even 900 fuse takes 10x as long if not longer. I would not eliminate these cards as OP states just make them harder is all. (And Tabula needs to be a t1/t2 drop rate)
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on May 24, 2016, 11:01:58 PM
Aim: My point was exactly that. Whether you're average or not in terms of time played per day (I strongly suspect not), by your numbers you would normally be expected to take 1.2 (900 fuses) to 2 (1500) months of a 3 month league to get a six link. I.e. most of the league may be over and you may well have quit that character.
Yes, this change makes achieving a 6-link quicker. The first question is, by how much on average? Do we actually know? How many people actually got one within a week? What about if we exclude tabulas? How many people left the league without a 6-link at all?
Next question is if you can get to maps within a day or two, why shouldn't a 6-link be achievable in a week? Should 6-links be level-gated somehow? What minimum level would you set? 90? 95? 99?
In that sense, your personal experience means little to nothing. It's about the broader playerbase. To reiterate, trading doesn't in any way change the theoretical amount of 6-links cards *can* add into the mix. It simply changes your personal timing for getting a 6-link.
In standard things things devalued greatly enough that people now SKIP 5links on chests at the very least. This should never ever happen, its there for a reason. And the cause of this is cheap 6 links. People sell ok-ish 6links for 1-1.5ex which is very reachable amount for any player. You can argue about the timing etc but this is the problem here, natural item progression is disappearing now.
Another good point. I go from 3L to 6L though skip 4 AND 5.
Best weapon in the game until you get a tabula/astral plate
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on May 24, 2016, 11:07:26 PM
