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Remove 6 link divination cards

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Mannoth wrote:
I do not understand if people who are against these cards understand that it still takes time to obtain a 6L and if you push it too far it becomes irrelevant in temporary leagues and for a majority of players.
To obtain a 6L with 1500 fuses in a temp league by the end of 4th week (1/3 of the league) you need to generate 53 fuses per day, every day in the week.

Now an average player will probably make half of that amount per day, meaning realistically you can obtain your 6L by the end of 8th week (56 days playing every day and getting 26.5 fuses per day).

So if you decimate the chances for 6L it might as well not exist at all for major population of players who play temp leagues because people will get burnt out after 8 weeks of constant play.


So yeah... excuse me for not wanting to back to the time when I saw a 6L every 3rd league when I lucked out while trying to make a 5L on a 6S item.


Again 6L is the end goal. You have a choise you either make do with 5L(any decent build will do t15s with 5l just fine) or buy tabula for the 6 link. Besides, once you start mapping drops will get you enough currency, and in new leagues gear actually worth something.

Difference between your thought process and mine is that with mine, progress is smoother, you dont jump multiple steps the game has put there for you to feel you are achieving something. Think of it this way, if someone gave you 10k exalts you'd stop playing the game within a week, everything will be easy, you'll be able to do any map/build etc in the game. No progress, no game.
I dont know about justicar, because I never cared to farm crypt, but doing a dapper prodigy for the challenge (yes I admit it, first time I care about challenges, mostly to prove some points to detractors), I was surprised how little time it took. I got a set in around 10 residences, which is probably on the luckier side, but I did roll good quantity on most of maps

now, of course, its a random base for dapper prodigy, but still...
Last edited by grepman on May 23, 2016, 5:46:29 PM
I am sorry but gating game content and/or mechanics behind RNG is not something I agree upon, when one of the selling point of game is the linked gem system obtaining it should be possible for a normal player during the course of a temporary league.

My statistics regarding 6L

During the last 3+ years of me playing this game, I made over 30 characters (some of which have been deleted to make room on my account cause the cap is 24) and with averaging a level of 84.5 across them my total number of dropped 6L items is:

1 from a corrupt strongbox in a map (vendored for a divine)
1 from a merciless fellshrine strongbox (sold for 20c because the ilvl/base sucked balls)
1 in the flashback Perandus Event (HC) from a fully linked box (A ilvl 72 reaver sword, aka a divine)
1 from an actual monster (ilvl 70 Devout Chainmail)

Number of bought 6L items:
4 before perandus (2 of which were bought by me selling a legacy mjolner)
2 in perandus

And the amount of 6L items I made is:
1x Lightbane Raiment in Talisman (lucked out while trying to 5L)
1x Pillar of the Caged God (looted 6S, thrown a fuse before vendoring)
1x Atziri's Disfavour (perandus league, lucked out while trying to 5L)
1x Legacy Lightning Coil (burning fuses in standard, nothing better to do)


So when all of my 60% of my owned 6L items are traded for and 30% are made by dumb luck while the 10% is made with the exact purpose of linking it over the course of 3+ years I welcome the new way of actually not relying on luck and having a way to farm for a chance at gaining a random 6L.

I will admit that the Justicard card is probably too good because it gives a specific base 6L (The Vaal Regalia 6L card only drops in the Apex of Sacrifice, so it's much more rare) but The Chains that Bind and Dapper Prodigy are gamble cards because of the random base.

[2.2] The Vampire - Tanky 2H Axe Slayer Duelist - /view-thread/1611662
Last edited by Mannoth on May 23, 2016, 6:04:29 PM
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Snorkle_uk wrote:
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Aim_Deep wrote:
The problem with those calc is 6L is not mandatory. Should be a total luxury and rare as hell. Everyone doesnt need the gold star 8 weeks in.

And no you realistically get a 6L after spending 80 chaos on justicars or 20 chaos on tabula 1 week in

way too easy



exactly.

If you cant start mapping on a 4 link theres something wrong with how youve gone about your build, and you should be made to learn what that is and get it right next time to progress smoothly, not be given gear that makes up for the fact you did the tree completely wrong and you are playing it wrong.


These cards are one of the worst things theyve added to the game. Want a 6 link? got 1500 fusing? Only joking, if you got 150 u can go buy a justicar and spam a few chaos on it, done. But lets leave 1500 price tag in the game despite us completely fucking it over with div cards.

To make it worse they put these things on the cards for your challenges etc, so everyone and their mother is just making 6 links all day for the sake of it. We have ilvl100 6L armours in our guild stash where people have handed in cards and then just thrown the 6L base in guild stash, its not even worth chaos spamming them for decent rolls because who gives a fuck, no one wants it, so trivial and meaningless.


yep back in the day finding a 6L random in the field was a huge deal like 3-4ex minimum. Now you find it? pfft. Hopefully league is not 2 weeks old. Otherwise you got a divine.

What gets me about astral plate its like the best armor base for anyone in south end of the tree (ppl with str) yet easiest to get.

pretty much how I worked since these cards were introduced is justcars to astral plate to anywhere I want 1-2 weeks in. save uber or something...
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on May 23, 2016, 7:20:06 PM
"
Mannoth wrote:


So when all of my 60% of my owned 6L items are traded for and 30% are made by dumb luck while the 10% is made with the exact purpose of linking it over the course of 3+ years I welcome the new way of actually not relying on luck and having a way to farm for a chance at gaining a random 6L.




its not luck though, every rare item you find vendors for alts and alts vendor to jewellers, to fusing, and then when you have 1500 fusing you can bench a 6 link. There is the sure way to get your 6 link, they already introduced it and decided that was the cost based on what they had decided was the cost through fusing. I think this cost is fine, youg et fusing through alts consistently all day while you farm virtually anywhere, gamble them or bench with them for fixed price, this is the system, if they think the system is too harsh then change it, dont bypass it and devalue it on some div card hype train.


Personally I think its fine. I no life the game, this is true, but my experience is that if I push selling rares from mapping in trade and to vendor I can make about 1500 fuse per week, if people have 3 months they can save up 1500 fusing, if they really want to. Or they cna use them by hand, Ive used all the fuse, jewellers and alts that have dropped for me in perandus, Ive not traded for bulk fusings, Ive 6link about five items in the space of the league. Anyone whos effort and budget for the links on their chest armour is topping out at 80 chaos or whatever a set of cards costs does not deserve a 6 link, simple as that, sounds harsh but its true imo. I think if people want a 6 link in a league they can get one without these cards, if I can get 5 they can get at least 1, they just have to step up what theyre doing. Thats what makes it rewarding, having to try.


Im not a total elitist nazi, I was one of the people who constantly pushed feedback threads on 6 linking and giving us a fixed price vendor recipe so that people could actually sit down and work towards that sure goal. Im all for upping the drop rates on fuse a bit, Im up for exalts being about 10x more common than they are now, I would like to see volatile blood nerfed out of existance, Ive endlessly called for better access to maps... I dont just want everything ultra hard, ultra elite, thats not my take at all. But this is too trivial for 6 links, and I say that not from a selfish point of view but trying to take a step back and have an honest look at whats good for the game as a whole.


@Snorkle_uk

Do you honestly belive that if the best way of obtaining a 6L is 1500 fuses or spamming them anyone will ever do it other than on almost perfect rares?
You will just have everyone running in unique chest pieces, rares get knocked down from a viable choice again, at least now you have a choice of running a unique 5L or a rare 6L and weighing down their values.

As I mentioned before, the price you pay for running a 6L rare chest piece is that it is a rare chest piece and not a unique like:
Carcass Jack
Belly of the Beast
Lightning Coil
Shavronne's Wrappings
Lioneye's Vision

They all offer things a rare chest can never offer, for a multitude of builds.
Only builds that go for strictly rare chests are CI builds, and people who can't afford the mentioned 6L uniques or can't resolve resistances while wearing them for whatever reason.

And again most of these cards still come with a big RNG factor, the Vorici Price is fixed and applies to an item of your choosing, you can't get a divination card for a 6L lightning coil. Got a GG rare chest? Well you can't divination card it to 6L either, tough luck.

So in my opinion the "end goal" is in 95% of the player cases a 6L unique chest, and the progression is usually:
5L unique => 6L rare => 6L unique

Sometimes builds don't even use a 6L rare because it is strictly inferior compared to what the unique chest gives them.
[2.2] The Vampire - Tanky 2H Axe Slayer Duelist - /view-thread/1611662
Last edited by Mannoth on May 24, 2016, 3:59:57 AM
"
Mannoth wrote:

They all offer things a rare chest can never offer, for a multitude of builds.
Only builds that go for strictly rare chests are CI builds, and people who can't afford the mentioned 6L uniques or can't resolve resistances while wearing them for whatever reason.

sorry to nitpick, but tanky armour builds usually want a rare chest. yes LC is still good, but a bis chestpiece for juggernaut is a rare with ton of armour on it.
"
grepman wrote:
"
Mannoth wrote:

They all offer things a rare chest can never offer, for a multitude of builds.
Only builds that go for strictly rare chests are CI builds, and people who can't afford the mentioned 6L uniques or can't resolve resistances while wearing them for whatever reason.

sorry to nitpick, but tanky armour builds usually want a rare chest. yes LC is still good, but a bis chestpiece for juggernaut is a rare with ton of armour on it.


It is still cutting it really close however and juggernaut is one of the 19 ascendancy classes.
Even if all classes would be played equally (which they aren't, juggernaut isn't wildly popular) a juggernaut would only make up for a 5.26% of the player base.

So in reality less than 5% of the player base wants a high armor chest piece over a Lightning Coil.
[2.2] The Vampire - Tanky 2H Axe Slayer Duelist - /view-thread/1611662
"
Mannoth wrote:
@Snorkle_uk

Do you honestly belive that if the best way of obtaining a 6L is 1500 fuses or spamming them anyone will ever do it other than on almost perfect rares?



depends what you class as almost perfect. People will spam fuse on chests they want to 6 link, be it rare or unique. They will also spam on chests they want to 5 link, and occasionally 6 link them. I dont really see the rarity of the item as tied to the issue.

Im not against justicar existing, but I think its rarity should demand a price that is appropriate vs 1500 for a guarantee on a chest you get to chose the stats on.

I dont agree that 95% of builds see a unique chest as the best possible chest for their build. I dont think people use a 5L shavs, then a 6L from chains that bind, then a 6L shavs. I think they get a 5L shavs then a 6L shavs, or a 5L rare chest then a 6L rare chest.

The balance of rares vs uniques, I think thats a completely different issue. I use rares on the majority of my endgame characters because theyre better than uniques for those builds, essentially. Is there a healthy balance on a budget? I think its a big topic, my feelings on it dont effect my thoughts on 6 links, its about item + orb availability to me.
"
Mannoth wrote:
I am sorry but gating game content and/or mechanics behind RNG is not something I agree upon, when one of the selling point of game is the linked gem system obtaining it should be possible for a normal player during the course of a temporary league.



What of those who play at standard? Majority of players do play on standard, and its shitting the economy there. Do you know what im regularly seeing? 900ES+ 2res(and they are good, t3+ shit) chests being sold for 20-30 ex, people used to spend mirror of kalandra + exalt fee to get gear like that, and now for 20 ex u get the original. Ask any old timer economy is getting worse as we dont have enough ways to melt the overflowing of gear, but its gotten way worse since the divinations introduced. I played this game since full release, and i'll say this is the worse i've seen it get.

RNG is the core of this game i mean everything in this game is RNG based. How currency effects items, how items drop or map drops pretty much anything. You have to be ok with that if you are playing an d2 based rpg.

And once again, 6 link is not "End game" and its not "mandatory". I have builds that i do t15s with a 4 Link breezing through it just fine, you dont have to own everything PoE is not a shopping simulator. You can buy what you need in any league etc just fine but if you want the best stuff, you have to be better than most people at either gameplay, or economy game. 5 link is cheap enough to be afforded by any worse-than-average player in the game and any decent build will do every single map in game with 5 link.

here this chest cost me 65ex for example

by all means i shouldnt have gotten such an item but now its possible, and i dont like it(i know its ironic but what else do i look forward to after such chestpiece?)
Last edited by Fistaniderya on May 24, 2016, 6:18:09 PM

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