Game is too fast.

A game's speed governs a tradeoff between thoughtful tactics and visceral excitement. These are the best case scenarios for each end: tactics don't emerge simply for being slow, but they are strangled when the game is fast. The reverse is true for excitement.

When POE launched it was definitely more on the thinking side, but as it has evolved it has shifted to the other end of the scale, which is the feeling side. I think it was a good evolution up to a point, since it is an action game after all, but there are limits. As I mentioned above, being fast doesn't automatically give the game the good qualities that can emerge only from a fast game. GGG has sped up POE enough to strangle the thoughtfulness, but hasn't done much to incite joy, fear, giddyness, excitement, or other base emotions. I mean, if they are diminishing the use of higher level thinking from the game, then they should be replacing it with lower level emotional pulls. Otherwise they lose engagement.

The best way forward seems to be to undo progress that was made in evolving the game to this point, which is never a good situation.

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

A game's speed governs a tradeoff between thoughtful tactics and visceral excitement. These are the best case scenarios for each end: tactics don't emerge simply for being slow, but they are strangled when the game is fast. The reverse is true for excitement.

When POE launched it was definitely more on the thinking side, but as it has evolved it has shifted to the other end of the scale, which is the feeling side. I think it was a good evolution up to a point, since it is an action game after all, but there are limits. As I mentioned above, being fast doesn't automatically give the game the good qualities that can emerge only from a fast game. GGG has sped up POE enough to strangle the thoughtfulness, but hasn't done much to incite joy, fear, giddyness, excitement, or other base emotions. I mean, if they are diminishing the use of higher level thinking from the game, then they should be replacing it with lower level emotional pulls. Otherwise they lose engagement.

The best way forward seems to be to undo progress that was made in evolving the game to this point, which is never a good situation.

I think this is a valid point. However I also believe we way past the point of this being a 'good evolution' :( The thinking element and the tactical element in PoE is almost gone. I don't need to think anymore. I just need to go faster, faster, faster! But yes - your post has some valid points :)

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Char1983 wrote:

Why would 6l be easier to get nowadays? Fusings have not gotten cheaper. Yes, 20% quality helps, but not exactly much.

Div cards, more 6s dropping, masters, and fusings are cheaper in permanent leagues.

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Besides, nothing was changed since you answered. Check the time stamps. I edited two minutes after I had written the post and 4 minutes before you wrote yours.

I was kidding.

Problem is, when you balance to the current speed meta (by, for example, adding tons of hitpoints to monsters in order to slow down people with 100k fps), you leave pretty much every new player (or casual player, which makes up an increasingly large percentage of PoE players) in the dust.

One idea is to move the locus of power slowly away from gear back to the passive tree. The Ascendancy classes are a good start, but as we've seen many of the Ascendancy bonuses simply amplify the power already provided by gear, which has the opposite effect.

As a self-found player, I've never topped 15k dps, and I never once encountered the reflect problems that others encounter, which makes me think that it is one of their ways of combating power creep. Perhaps they need to do more of this kind of thing, not less, and remove instant leech while they are at it (so that it can actually accomplish its objective).

At the same time, GGG needs to reward defensive choices more, to account for what others in this thread have already said: "The best--sometimes only viable--defense is a powerful offense." If you are going to get one-shot anyhow, why NOT make a glass cannon that kills stuff offscreen? Allow people to build for defense more, to feel like they are not ruining their character by not investing those points (and gear) into DPS. The existence of overtuned bosses (and, not to put too fine a point on it, of the entire hardcore league) further reinforces how beneficial this could be.

In short:

Allow people more effective defense to
1. reduce one-shot deaths (which, let's face it, are usually BS deaths) and
2. incentivize more tactical gameplay,
thereby slowing down the game to the point where it's less silly (and more fun).

EDIT:
Alternatively, GGG could just give a blanket nerf to everyone's damage, both players and monsters, and accomplish much of the same. But that would basically kill glass cannons and probably lead to more player dissatisfaction. Increasing defense and defensive options would be a better solution, because it encourages people to spec more defensively instead of forcing them to do so.

^^^Are you solo self-found as well?

if the game too fast for you go try D3, i got 500 paragaon in 5 hours.. and game over, nothing else left to do... don't tell things "Too fast" before you bring things you compared with..

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6439759 wrote:

if the game too fast for you go try D3, i got 500 paragaon in 5 hours.. and game over, nothing else left to do... don't tell things "Too fast" before you bring things you compared with..

Wait wait hold on these people's suggestions are fucking terrible sure but you can't compare D3 and PoE both of them are for two different people or audiences.

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I_NO wrote:

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6439759 wrote:

if the game too fast for you go try D3, i got 500 paragaon in 5 hours.. and game over, nothing else left to do... don't tell things "Too fast" before you bring things you compared with..

Wait wait hold on these people's suggestions are fucking terrible sure but you can't compare D3 and PoE both of them are for two different people or audiences.

so "too fast" compared to what?

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I_NO wrote:

"

6439759 wrote:

if the game too fast for you go try D3, i got 500 paragaon in 5 hours.. and game over, nothing else left to do... don't tell things "Too fast" before you bring things you compared with..

Wait wait hold on these people's suggestions are fucking terrible sure but you can't compare D3 and PoE both of them are for two different people or audiences.

Honestly, though i agree with you, i have to add this. Do you remember the launch of PoE and D3? Both game were absurdingly slow, D3's inferno difficulty level was the slowest hack&slash i've ever played. Now D3 is really a game where you dont understand a fuck of whats happening: thousands mobs surrounding you, 4 players that spams skills, everything melt in a second (or you die in a second); the content is cleared in less than 20 hours of game, you can close rifts in two minutes even with the starting set (given for free by the game itself lol).


I am very worried: Path of Exile is following the path chosen by D3. This is what I fear the most, and that's why I'm against increasing the speed level every league; we've already reached a good speed farming level, accessible for every players.

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6439759 wrote:

so "too fast" compared to what?

Too fast compared to the launch of PoE, with the introduction of act3. But you can see that the game is a lot faster only by comparing how it was only 2 years ago.
I do perfectly know how fast is D3. That's why I opened this thread, this game is going to the same way if the speed increases every league.

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

A game's speed governs a tradeoff between thoughtful tactics and visceral excitement. These are the best case scenarios for each end: tactics don't emerge simply for being slow, but they are strangled when the game is fast. The reverse is true for excitement.

When POE launched it was definitely more on the thinking side, but as it has evolved it has shifted to the other end of the scale, which is the feeling side. I think it was a good evolution up to a point, since it is an action game after all, but there are limits. As I mentioned above, being fast doesn't automatically give the game the good qualities that can emerge only from a fast game. GGG has sped up POE enough to strangle the thoughtfulness, but hasn't done much to incite joy, fear, giddyness, excitement, or other base emotions. I mean, if they are diminishing the use of higher level thinking from the game, then they should be replacing it with lower level emotional pulls. Otherwise they lose engagement.

The best way forward seems to be to undo progress that was made in evolving the game to this point, which is never a good situation.

Good post mate.
Though i dont agree with the last sentence. I think that errors happens, and its good sometimes to do them; everyone can learn from errors, and doing step back is not always a bad thing as often is.

Oh yeah I remember pre-nerfed inferno it WAS actually hard and it WAS slow as fuck unless you were a DH pre-nerfed elemental nether arrow with like 9k hp but didn't matter nether arrow did like 50000000000000 damage per second.

THAT is slow that's fucking terrible I didn't enjoy doing that.