Game is too fast.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

You might be talking about D2 pre-expansion with few patches but the game is very fast now. (Technically has always been since it's been in the past)

Also you can beat the game naked in D2 ~.~ Or if your going to do it 3X over, do it under 20 hours solo off-line with no help or trading.

I would like to see the things you are saying being done by the majority of the player (coz if you are a pro... then it doesnt matter). I think the average player, like I am, would never achieve to kill Ball in 20 hours in Hell difficulty. On battlenet you can achieve this in a couple of hours. This is like playing two different games.
In 20 hours you are going to finish only normal. Also, of course im referring to the LoD expansion: i think i didnt play so much the pre-exp game, but honestly i cant remember.

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The devs are also directly inspired from D2 online battle-net with the latest patch/expansion. I have no idea why would you bring up older versions of D2 like it was the ones devs are inspired by.

"Inspired" doesnt mean copy-paste. Blizzard never balanced D2 online. GGG constantly tried to do it (though everyone can say that having a perfect balanced game is impossible). But it tried to make a game where you could actually do with every character every possible build, changing a lot of things every league. This makes a huge difference.

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Also I like it how if I don't fit within your "definition" of a D2 player, then I'm not one at all. Just like the vast majority of other people who played D2 (because obviously D2 wasn't one of the best hit multiplayer game as well), a true Scotsman argument if we have one here.

I just wanted to said that D2 offline and D2 battlenet are two completely different games. And they are, because in the online game you can achieve everything in 1/1000000 of the time. D2 was realeased as a solo-offline game; then Blizzard took a risk, trying something new: the online game, which was a great success. But the game was thought on the solo player, thats why it is absurdingly unbalanced. Anyway im sorry for the unclear statement.

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Especially since you know we have a 100% online only ARPG based on trading/economy/playing with your friends.

And...? GGG choose this way, in a period where playing online with other people had become real popular. If I wouldnt be fine with it, I would have never played PoE. So?

Anyway, this is totally offtopic.

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I would like to see the things you are saying being done by the majority of the player (coz if you are a pro... then it doesnt matter). I think the average player, like I am, would never achieve to kill Ball in 20 hours in Hell difficulty. On battlenet you can achieve this in a couple of hours. This is like playing two different games.
In 20 hours you are going to finish only normal. Also, of course im referring to the LoD expansion: i think i didnt play so much the pre-exp game, but honestly i cant remember.

Just because you think your the average player doesn't mean you are, same thing with whenever or not you think you are good. The average player in D2 bypassed everything getting rushed in general so that's a bad metric to use. The campaign length in D2 is about as long as PoE campaign so I wouldn't see why you would believe you could do it under 20 hours for a average person when D2 is easier then PoE.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2513

If you want actually statistics on average people beat the entire main story with no extra within 20 hours.

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"Inspired" doesnt mean copy-paste. Blizzard never balanced D2 online. GGG constantly tried to do it (though everyone can say that having a perfect balanced game is impossible). But it tried to make a game where you could actually do with every character every possible build, changing a lot of things every league. This makes a huge difference.

I didn't say copy-paste either, obviously the game has many features and improvements over D2 that didn't exist in the game. But if you're going to tell me that the game isn't directly inspired by the gameplay style and many mechanics of D2 then I don't know what to say.

Also contrary to popular belief blizzard has done a number of balance and changes to D2. This is a new concept that a game stays online for a long time and has multiple years of patches after it's initial release date, which D2 has done. Obviously, a game from ancient times isn't going to have an evolving game constantly.

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And...? GGG choose this way. If I wouldnt be fine with it, I would have never played PoE. So?

Anyway, this is totally offtopic.

"Choose" what way, they were like this since they started the game. The game is DESIGNED to be like this, it's not like it was accidentally too fast one day. They didn't promise a slow moving arpg with a ultra long story like grim dawn. Which I recommend playing if you want to dial back.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Looks like exactly as promised, though not to say D2 was perfect or anything but we did get what we ask for.

Yeah, well, what I'm saying is we got some elements of online D2 that weren't anywhere in sight a few years ago (except for item duping :)

You'd rightfully assume some of the more unsavory things would stay in D2 and we never exactly got the list of things they intend to adopt. But then again, perhaps the problem is everyone has his own savory/unsavory list, mine starts with Uzbek pilaf and haggis.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Just because you think your the average player doesn't mean you are, same thing with whenever or not you think you are good. The average player in D2 bypassed everything getting rushed in general so that's a bad metric to use. The campaign length in D2 is about as long as PoE campaign so I wouldn't see why you would believe you could do it under 20 hours for a average person when D2 is easier then PoE.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2513

If you want actually statistics on average people beat the entire main story with no extra within 20 hours.

You are right about the general things you say, but im fairly sure to be an average player for my experience (i constantly play this types of game, because i love this genre, since at least 2001: it is something like a drug for me).
I look at that website: with "Main story" they refer to the completition of normal game. 20 hours required for only the normal difficulty. What did I say? Exactly this.
Completing the main story doesnt mean completing the game, because endgame is Ball in Hell difficulty.
Do you care if anyone completes the normal difficulty in PoE quickly and without pain? No, because everyone who talks about game balance refers to maps, which is the core endgame.
D2 was studied to be easy in normal, like PoE. This is a good thing. But its not something that is worth to be considered when talking about "game completed".
In PoE we would say that the game is completed not when you kill Malachai merciless, but when you kill uber and the hardest map bosses.

If you dont believe this, go try play it for yourself. And you will see that in 20h you wont be close to hell.

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I didn't say copy-paste either, obviously the game has many features and improvements over D2 that didn't exist in the game. But if you're going to tell me that the game isn't directly inspired by the gameplay style and many mechanics of D2 then I don't know what to say.

Also contrary to popular belief blizzard has done a number of balance and changes to D2. This is a new concept that a game stays online for a long time and has multiple years of patches after it's initial release date, which D2 has done. Obviously, a game from ancient times isn't going to have an evolving game constantly.

Well multiple patch doesnt mean skill balance (i dont talk about other addition, coz that would be anachronistic), nor huge change when everyone knew how to reach some metabuilds to kill in 1 minute merciless Baal alone for 8 people. Also, Blizzard almost never tried to erase bots and copied gear: they really never cared for even though they knew that, creating an online game where a community can grow, would have meant to create economy. When D3 was launched, since it was online from the start - most importantly, since there was an AH, even with real money -, they cared about this, and a lot.
That's why PoE is superior. This game was born to be online. Was studied to be like this, was "balanced" to be like this, especially on the trade side (which is the core of the online game: being part of a community, to exchange things). We couldnt say the same for D2 online, and the lack of efforts in every possible way confirms this.
Also "inspire" means that they indeed took some mechanics from D2 (but, in general, from the previous hack&slash... i would say that they take something even from the general RPG: if you look the passive skill tree you could think about FF X's system; gem system somewhat remembers FF VII's materia). Almost every game is inspired by some previous game. D2 was the most important, no one could argue that, because it is the first hack&slash like we now know. I did say that PoE is inspired by D2, in fact.

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"Choose" what way, they were like this since they started the game. The game is DESIGNED to be like this, it's not like it was accidentally too fast one day. They didn't promise a slow moving arpg with a ultra long story like grim dawn. Which I recommend playing if you want to dial back.

When I said "choose" I meant that they could even plan the game differently from the start. PoE could have been an offline hack&slash like many others that had been produced since the start of the open beta. They choose to make it an online game, inspired by D2's success surely, making
Well story here it's pretty irrilevant, like in the 99% of hack&slash. Diablo included, though maybe some dialogues could be interesting :P