Everyone wanting to PvP in ARPGS have moved on to MOBAs

I think he's probably right tbh. It's not like they didn't try to improve pvp in previous patches and still people didn't touch it.

I'm not even sure PVP was THAT big in d2. PVE dominated that game as well despite pvp being pretty fun and skill based (largely a happy accident of balancing + community defined rules)

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That's what Chris said on the state of the exile podcast anyway. Anyone care to evaluate this statement?

To make it simple there are actualy more PvP oriented games built on many different designs than survival games.

Soo yeah i will join Chris on that ^^

Pvp in d2 got almost zero support they literally just added a hostile button and said have fun.

I've been a pvper in poe since the beginning, i spent my whole time in poe designing my character and met possibly the best players in poe trought it. Most of us experienced know more than the average in poe, we are able to make any kind of build and theorycraft to full potentials.

I wouldnt have perfected my build that much if it wasnt for pvp in poe, there was times where pvp was extremely fun in poe and i enjoyed it a lot, pve content got me bored pretty fast after sometime and seeking for a true endgame challenge led me to pvp.

I think the issue is that GGG is not promoting nor fixing pvp in the right way it should be, yes they did patches, they gave us a tournament which was pretty cool but that's not enough to bring a lot of interest. Who would want to play pvp if the pvp calculation algorithms ( damage scaling of skills in pvp ) is not even up to date ?

We gave tremendous feedback to GGG about what needed a reducement in damage, what would be required to have a more balanced meta and yet they never listened to us. Before ascendancy PvP was in a good state in poe, it's not true that it always been a 1 shot fest, i have the experience to say so and i had a handful of fair matches against a wide variety of builds.

Build diversity is another great thing when it comes to poe pvp, you have sooooo many things to try out which leads to an unilimited amount of options to defeat your opponent, but people tend to think that all it requires is a day of work to come up with a good pvp character when it took me almost a year to make mine and even now i still have to update it, its not as easy as what people think and requires a lot of theorycrafting to be able to counter everything that is thrown at you.

Why did players move on to mobas and etc after d2 ? because there is no other games to fill out their arpg pvp desires, there is nothing else for them to play besides these games because nowadays d2 is old and dead. Poe is not getting the interest it deserves towards pvp because of GGG's fault, its entirely their fault if pvp is not as sucessfull as diablo 2, it's not getting the support it deserves, the promoting, the patches, the fixes nor the modes it should have.

Imagine if you could join an instance like in diablo 2 and press an hostile button in poe, i'm pretty sure everyone would be hyped about it and would rather make a character strong enough to defeat other characters while being pve viable, which would lead to a lot more characters being able to actually play pvp. If that was the case a lot of players would play pvp and we would have the interest high enough to get support from GGG.

D2 pvp was also successfull because it was the TRUE endgame, you didnt farm ubers all day long, you didnt do baal runs all day long in diablo 2 after finishing your character. You were going into duel servers to test your outcome against the strongest ones because that was what the endgame was, everyone wnated to see how good their character was against others which led to a lot of competition and success paired wiht the hostile button. In POE there is still no endgame, i dont believe maps are the endgame and will never believe so, i still believe PVP should be a part of the endgame but unfortunatly GGG cannot realize it.

Too much effort put on some pve content that everyone gets bored after a week, too much effort on microtransactions, yet some of the core game content gets put aside and they claim it's not popular enough to receive support when the fault is on their shoulders, we would play PVP if it was tuned properly.

I understand that a ''free'' arpg game will make content based on the money they can make but putting aside something implemented in the game because you cant make money out of it stupid, why implement something you cant even maintain or have the desire to make it good ?

D2 was a pay to play game and wasnt forced to make money tru useless microtransactions to keep the game going, so they had a handful of time to tune pvp and make it desirable, which unfortunatly GGG cannot seem to be able to do and that's one of the faults of being a F2P game.

I understand you need to make money GGG, but atleast listen to us when we ask for fixes reguarding what is broken in pvp, dont just say hey i implement pvp in my game but its unsupported so dont play it and focus on pve instead. If you would do the basics first and fix what is needed it would atleats stay in a balanced state and it's not true that it cannot be balanced, i wouldnt have made my whole 6 years poe experience pvp based if it always been unbalanced.

Keep the support on pvp, add an hostile button and do the damn fixes we asked and you'll have more interest over time, why give up when you havent done a real thing yet ?

2 cents from a poe pvp enthusiast.

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ladish wrote:

I'm not even sure PVP was THAT big in d2.

I would eat my hat if the proportion of D2 players interested in PvP was even close to 1%. Presumably it's lower still in PoE.

Just gonna copy most post from another thread:

Liked all of the things discussed except for the PvP portion. I probably would've never started playing PoE if it wasn't for the future promise of PvP. Chris said they've made "pushes" for PvP but it's been done so damn poorly... The same group in the PvP forums have been saying the same things over and over, let us have a PvP season in Standard (so we can use our characters to compete that have taken years to create and perfect), fix EA, etc, etc. We asked for it since the beginning and you've tried feeding us everything but. Instead we got midget dueling (LLD) that nobody cares about and is boring as hell. Not all of us like League of Legends and I personally like the idea of gear being a factor in a match, preparing, theorycrafting, finding creative solutions to opponents. PoE had the potential no other game had to capitalize on this. All along, all we wanted is a competitive, semi-balanced way to use our level 95+ chars with godly gear to humiliate each other in a virtual arena, and you refused to provide it. (prizes and those ideas are just gravy, not essential)

When you asked the community how to push forward PvP you asked the WRONG GUYS, with the wrong advice. This should be obvious to you know because nobody liked what they had to offer.

One thing just occurred to me: what about the choice of games that D2 had. You could join a game from the lobby, poke your head in to see what kind of people were participating in what kind(s) of PvP. If it wasn't to your liking you could just find another game. In PoE if you join the arena or w.e you're stuck with those ppl right? I'm not sure - the only PvP I've done is when GGG debuted pvp season 1.

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CalamityAOE wrote:

Pvp in d2 got almost zero support they literally just added a hostile button and said have fun.

Because that's all you need, overcomplicated/gated/limited PvP never works.

I have very fond memories of PvPing outside of Rogue's Encampment for many many months (before 1.10 destroyed the game with broken stuff). People hosted their own tournaments, had their own rules, the list was always full of PvP games, etc.

And yes, mechanics wise the game was way more suitable for PvP and playing properly actually mattered.

I will never see PvP working in any shape or form in this game, the mechanics simply do not support that.

I'm glad Chris and team are re-thinking their strategy on this. I wholeheartedly agree that commpetitive PvE is the future for all RPG-style games.

PvP never felt interesting to me in RPGs. It mostly comes down to gear and stats, and how is that interesting in a PvP-setting? For PvP to fully work, players need an equal footing. Skill should be rewarded, gear and stats should not. That pretty much disqualifies all RPGs.

I've only really been involved with two forms of PvP: chess and Starcraft. Both are absolutely brilliant games. I consider SC2: Wings of Liberty the peak in competitive PvP. Such a beautiful game that was.

I think Ceri pretty much said everything relevant regarding PvP it has to be fair and players have to use skill and possibly use same gears or at least having access to these gears. RnG totaly destroy any chances to see that in a game like PoE.

Honestly i prefer seeing GGG doing what they are the best at: PvE content than keep going on PvP that has been poorly released by the past ( and at the worse period btw regarding all troubles the game had and still have ).


No need to think a lot about it. There are something like 4 or 5 ARPG around wich helped a lot PoE to be succeful. And around 300 or 400 PvP based games on not even 10 years. Finding something really appealing is going to be REALLY harder than usual content added to PoE.