Pay 2 Win Premium Tabs Features - why GGG lies

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greyspear wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

You're talking about a player's skill or ability to utilize a feature relative to another. That doesn't determine whether or not something is p2w.

Actually, yes it does, because if it didn't then you could complain about it not being Pay2Win since obviously you would have paid for something that didn't give you a win.

Again, you're talking about the degree to which one 'wins', not whether or not there was a 'win' in general.

I think it's important to take a step back and look at the advantage you're actually getting with each tab type.

Regular tabs: Ability to save large amounts of gear for later. Easier time doing the recipes like chaos, baubles, and GCPs. Easier to store gear for trading(in fact having extra tabs is practically a requirement for this).

Premium tabs: All the benefits of regular tabs. Easier to organize due to tab naming. Easier to list items for trading.

Currency tabs: Let's you store your currency much more compactly, requiring less maintenance of regular or premium tabs to support organizing currency. Makes it much easier to see exactly how much you have.

From this perspective, premium tabs are just doing a better job at one of the things standard tabs already did: enabling you to maintain a shop. If you want to trade effectively you already had to pay for additional tabs. Now you just have to pay a tiny bit more for a little more convenience if you were cheap and only bought regular tabs. It's not like your only alternative is this party tools either. I manually maintained my forum shop for a long time before I switched to acquisition.

It's not any more pay to win than it already was imo.

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greyspear wrote:

No, I'm not. If I buy premium tabs and at the same time my favourite soccer team wins then this doesn't make premium tabs a Pay2Win feature. It only would make me a very spiritual person.

I should probably clarify: Your argument is logically invalid because to have a discussion at all about the degree to which something is p2w it must already be determined to be p2w. You're using the argument that because the amount of win is low that means it's not p2w. That argument doesn't stand because to make that argument you would have already had to determine it was p2w.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you're argument, which is entirely possible.

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greyspear wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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greyspear wrote:

No, I'm not. If I buy premium tabs and at the same time my favourite soccer team wins then this doesn't make premium tabs a Pay2Win feature. It only would make me a very spiritual person.

I should probably clarify: Your argument is logically invalid because to have a discussion at all about the degree to which something is p2w it must already be determined to be p2w. You're using the argument that because the amount of win is low that means it's not p2w. That argument doesn't stand because to make that argument you would have already had to determine it was p2w.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you're argument, which is entirely possible.

Is it logically invalid? I am pretty sure chaos theory has long since established the effect a butterfly can have on a greater system. And so I can make a logical connection between between me buying premium stash tabs and my soccer team winning a game. So you are wrong and it has nothing to do with logic, but rather with common sense.

If I bought something and you think it is a win, but you aren't happy for me and complain about it, then all it really is is jealousy.

Starting to feel like I'm being trolled... or maybe it's jealousy. lol

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greyspear wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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greyspear wrote:

No, I'm not. If I buy premium tabs and at the same time my favourite soccer team wins then this doesn't make premium tabs a Pay2Win feature. It only would make me a very spiritual person.

I should probably clarify: Your argument is logically invalid because to have a discussion at all about the degree to which something is p2w it must already be determined to be p2w. You're using the argument that because the amount of win is low that means it's not p2w. That argument doesn't stand because to make that argument you would have already had to determine it was p2w.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you're argument, which is entirely possible.

Is it logically invalid? I am pretty sure chaos theory has long since established the effect a butterfly can have on a greater system. I can make a logical connection between between me buying premium stash tabs and my soccer team winning a game. So you are wrong and it has nothing to do with logic, but rather with common sense.

If I bought something and you think it is a win, but you aren't happy for me and complain about it, then all it really is is jealousy.

This is utter BS.
Do you have anything... anything on topic or just soccer teams and butterfly effects?
And you keep bringing up this "jealousy" crap like it has anything to with the discussion, when it doesn't.

If 3rd party tools don't count as a free alternative to in game functions, then you also can't count poe.trade or anything else that uses the api GGG made available.

So those "p2w" premium stash tabs are 100% undeniably useless without 3rd party tools. There is absolutely no way an item in one of those tabs will sell if you take 3rd party tools out of the equation. So arguing that 3rd party tools "don't count" is nonsense if you're trying to show any inkling of an in game advantage of public stash tabs.

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mark1030 wrote:

So those "p2w" premium stash tabs are 100% undeniably useless without 3rd party tools. There is absolutely no way an item in one of those tabs will sell if ...

Way to take one false claim, and build an entire theory around it.
But at least you tried harder than the "wiki is p2w" and "butterfly" posts before you.

Additional stash tabs have been p2w for a long, long time. Pretty sure everyone knows that, deep down in their hearts.

Premium stash tabs weren't p2w before (or at least not very much, it's hard to make the labeling argument), now they are very clearly p2w.

Really, I think the OP can be boiled down to "I spent my MTX points in the most p2w way possible at the time, then GGG changed it up to make my purchase pattern suboptimal at maximizing p2w, now I'm salty because I want a redo." The hypocrisy is in calling premium tabs p2w, as if additional tabs weren't.

I just want GGG to rewrite 1 inaccurate sentence from the game description. P2W isn't evil really, just bad when taken to extremes.