Pay 2 Win Premium Tabs Features - why GGG lies

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Mannoth wrote:

@goetzjam

I do not really see how are you qualified to call out other players like that.
People do all sorts of shit they want for whatever reason they want, you putting them all into one stereotype and insulting both ProjectPT and his viewers at the same time just goes to show what kind of person you are, not him.

Also not that I am against long & good discussions but hell man, didn't you hear about the phrase "less is more" ?
I feel like the best arguments can be made in 2-3 good put sentences not novels.

I really admire the zeal at which you wear your white knight armor but honestly you are just being so aggressive with your posts lately that it's just diminishing your arguments.

Because I play this game, instead of just debate on the forums like a great number of people that post here?


I don't give a fuck what type of person you or anyone thinks I am. I'm not someone that is scared to tell people what I think, even if its something negative about a person, their views or their viewers.


Am I white knight, really? I guess I am a white knight whenever I defend GGG but whenever I criticize them I guess I'm not.

LOL

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goetzjam wrote:

Because I play this game, instead of just debate on the forums like a great number of people that post here?

D:

What are you saying!

But yeah I'm in this camp. Ascendancy was such a damn let down I can't motivate myself to play.

Edit: Decide to make a new witch and 4 mins in I get an unexpected disconnection error lol gd ><.

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

I think that some of the points ProjectPT makes are very interesting. You may not agree with them, but they are worth taking into account.

1) Value of Microtransactions. 42$ for a full armour set indeed is very expensive. I don't think all armour sets should be 20$ like he says, but maybe you should still have a noticeably wide range of microtransaction values so that players may feel more comfortable spending the amount of money they would like to support GGG with (I am not fine with a single pet costing more than 100$, but if you are, then by all means you should have a pet available that costs that much). It's an interesting point, but I guess it may be better to discuss this in another thread.

2) Selling QoL features. I understand this point of view, but I think almost everyone would have been fine with the sale of stash tabs, including the new currency stash tabs, if the new functionality had been accessible to everyone (and by saying that, I am not trying to push any specific method of making it accessible to everyone). That being said, he is right that caution needs to be taken into account when adding paid QoL features. You don't want the game to be significantly less enjoyable for people not spending money into it. A notable feature that needs to be constantly monitored is the amount of free tabs, making sure that it is indeed sufficient for a decent gaming experience.

3) Nobody is saying that GGG shouldn't be making money. Nobody.

PS : 85-90% of Perandus and Perandus Hardcore items available for trade being from premium stash tabs sure is worrisome.

First and foremost if you dont like a product don't buy it.


To address your points.

1) MTX cost are typically going to account for supporter pack purchases, not for raw point purchases. That means for that ~$42 you get whatever the $50 pack is, then the armor set in addition. Its a shame the best armor set to date is one tied to a previous supporter pack, never to be sold again.

Pets are vastly inferior mtx's to armor sets. Armor set is the single greatest MTX purchase you can make to bling out your character and its reuseable forever. If the standard price is around the $40 range, after value of supporter pack purchases and purchasing at key discount times its actually much lower cost in points and much better value.

The thing is GGG doesn't even care, people buy the shit regardless if you or he thinks its too expensive. But on top of that they also give away free mtx's and sets for temp league participation, FREE.

There was an exclusive armor set to the grandmaster pack, theres exclusives to all the supporter packs. So you can get the idea that everything they ever sell should be $100 or less out of your head, that isn't how their business model works. You also must not know like any other F2P game out there or even one that is "cheap" like CSGO where guns and knives skins can cost 1000+ easily.


2) The thing about the min necessary amount to enjoy the game and the min amount everyone here thinks is actually different from reality. There isn't a single person in this thread, except for john apparently that doesn't and hasnt purchased stash tabs, your bias even if you are trying not to be.

Second point is at some point when playing a game you have to decide is it worth rewarding the dev for the game and coughing up some money to support them so they can continue to make a better and better product. Lets say the experience sucks with 4 tabs, 1 more isn't going to vastly change anything, thats essentially 2 mule characters (in which they give 24 character slots to start) Its only once you purchase the "pack" that it becomes that much less of an issue, so for $20-30 or whatever it is you can vastly improve your experience, even if you can play this game for free, you in no way should sustainable and indefinably play for free.

The caveat to that is that players like myself enable players to play for free because we spend much more then your average joe does, even if he just buys a stash tab bundle or comic or whatever every once and a while. If you financially cannot comeup with 20-30 to support a great source of entertainment you likely have much bigger problems then not having access to an ingame "trade system" or additional tabs.

As for the amount of players listing via that method, how is that concerning, that means people are buying premium tabs or taking advantage of the resources that GGG is providing. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. As long as there is a need for the 3rd party programs, they will always be there and available. If you are suggesting that GGG would cease support for the "traditional style" without giving an alternative you vastly underestimate GGG's dedication to the free community.

First of all, this feature is not pay to win.
What can I do, as someone who has bought over 20 premium tabs, that you cannot?
Nothing.
In the time it takes to reach into your wallet, stab in your credit card details, and buy some premium tabs... You could have set up procurement.

Don't like 3rd party apps? Neither do I. But there is still an option: Take five goddamn minutes and learn how to set up a shop thread on the forums.

Too lazy for that? Then reach into your goddamn wallet for that credit card

Do you sons of beeches see how many goddamn free options there are before you touch your credit card?

Do you see now how this is not pay to win?

Would it have been better if this latest change was free too? ABSOLUTELY! I wish they had just made it a feature on regular tabs. They decided to make some money on it instead. Ok. If you all want call that a dick move, that's fine. Personally, after playing this game for so long, and getting so much out of it for nothing, I'd be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

The overwhelming sentiment seems to be that the change is creating a system of "haves" and "have nots". News flash, exiles. That already existed. The "haves" were using procurement. The "haves" were setting up forum threads. All that has changed is that now a convenient 3rd option exists for lazy people with a couple of bucks to spare.

Furthermore, the benefits far outweigh the supposed "insult" to the players. The economy has grown by an order of magnitude. This is wonderful. More items being sold, more items being bought, more chances to find that elusive item you need for that obscure build you are working on. In the long run this means good things for PoE.

Calm down, drink some coffee, be patient.

I'm Scale Enlie, and that's what I reckon.

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scale_e wrote:

First of all, this feature is not pay to win.
What can I do, as someone who has bought over 20 premium tabs, that you cannot?
Nothing.

Dude I have 4. You are full of it.
You have no damned clue, but I can show you exactly what it means.
Even if you had 5 you'd be better off than me - and you have 20.

Procurement? 3rd party. Not GGG. Not officially part of the game. Here today, gone tomorrow.
Your tabs? Exist as long as PoE exists.

... every single point you tried here has been countered in this thread, and no ammount of bold text or caps locking is going to change that.

Really you guys keep repeating the same damned things over and over again.
Scrotie gave up 2 pages ago probably not because he agrees with you, but because he got tired from answring claim A, only to get claim A thrown at him again.

I won't. I disagree and you really need to come up with something special to make me change my mind, because I know tabs are P2W. From practice, not theory. Not fkn "I got 20 but you should be fine with 4" because guess what - I'm not.

Wallet? I buy MTX and will continue to do so. Even though I agree with PT prices should be lower.
But not everyone can. Get that into that thick skull of yours.
And I won't buy tabs. Because they are the obvious advantage no pet, effect or hideout decoration would ever give you.

I actually did concede the point on the Premium Tab argument. The advantages of the tab API are minor compared to a properly configured Acquisition.

Additional tabs, however, I never conceded the point on - they're p2w. No one's really discussing it, though. So it still feels like I had the last word, without me needing to say anything new.

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johnKeys wrote:

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scale_e wrote:

First of all, this feature is not pay to win.
What can I do, as someone who has bought over 20 premium tabs, that you cannot?
Nothing.

Dude I have 4. You are full of it.
You have no damned clue, but I can show you exactly what it means.
Even if you had 5 you'd be better off than me - and you have 20.

Procurement? 3rd party. Not GGG. Not officially part of the game. Here today, gone tomorrow.
Your tabs? Exist as long as PoE exists.

... every single point you tried here has been countered in this thread, and no ammount of bold text or caps locking is going to change that.

Really you guys keep repeating the same damned things over and over again.
Scrotie gave up 2 pages ago probably not because he agrees with you, but because he got tired from answring claim A, only to get claim A thrown at him again.

I won't. I disagree and you really need to come up with something special to make me change my mind, because I know tabs are P2W. From practice, not theory. Not fkn "I got 20 but you should be fine with 4" because guess what - I'm not.

Wallet? I buy MTX and will continue to do so. Even though I agree with PT prices should be lower.
But not everyone can. Get that into that thick skull of yours.
And I won't buy tabs. Because they are the obvious advantage no pet, effect or hideout decoration would ever give you.

Why are you countering a point I never attempted to make? I'm talking about public listing of items from premium tabs. You know, the feature that the subject line of this entire thread refers to.

Furthermore, "I disagree and you really need to come up with something to change my mind, because I know." Really? Is this how a discussion works? The only evidence you've provided in response to my post can be reduced to "20 is a bigger number than 5".

*Golf clap*

Again, I was not arguing the benefits of being able to store many items, I was making a point about the new public listing function. Which is, you know, the entire point of this thread.

But, if you insist on arguing from a point of absurdity, fine. The simple counter is this:
You don't like 3rd party apps.
You don't like paying for a premium tab.
So your last option is, in bold text again, spend the 5 goddamn minutes it takes to set up a shop thread on the forums.

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goetzjam wrote:

Because I play this game, instead of just debate on the forums like a great number of people that post here?

I was not aware that playing the game gives a player the right to talk shit about other people, that is really a good thing to know and is a valid logical conclusion.

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goetzjam wrote:

I don't give a fuck what type of person you or anyone thinks I am. I'm not someone that is scared to tell people what I think, even if its something negative about a person, their views or their viewers.

You can make valid logical points without insulting other people (especially people who aren't in this thread) , which was the point I was trying to make.
A simple "I do not agree with him or his viewers" would have been a much better statement, because resorting to aggression just shows how weak your arguments are that you need to attack others to redirect attention from it.

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Miazga wrote:

So its been a while and as far as I can see GGG have not address the P2W concerns regarding the premium tab "shop" features, and why they haven't not been implemented for all the player base.

I expect that by this time, all you super duper supporters with your moms credit card are screaming and shouting that I should just spend more money on this game and not be a freeloader. Well, I'm not, I support GGG too, but instead of premium tabs I bought standard tabs, as I had no need for naming and fancy coloring (which was the only difference in past).

Now GGG first wave of trading improvements is much rather a first wave of Pay 2 Win implementations in this game. You may argue that this is just a quality of life change (that that GGG tries to sell it as) but its not. it is so NOT THAT, and its super easy to prove that, whit their recent addition of the currency tab. This is a real quality of life improvement and not pay 2 win feature. I know myself as I got it, as soon as I seen it. I don't give you anything more then easy way to store currency, while "shop" feature on premium is a clear advantage over other non premium stash tab users.

I don't expect for GGG to back out of their pay 2 win route, which I expect to get slowly implemented under the "quality of life" banner, but its really sad that they great company I respected so much over the years for their core values of making everyone equal in the game, now turning to money chasers.

PS: this is not an april's fool post.

You just invalidated all of your post with this one sentence. I mean, you have some solid points in there, but if you want to go after people who support the game you claim you respected so much over the years, I'd say you don't really care about them, or respect them.