Pay 2 Win Premium Tabs Features - why GGG lies

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johnKeys wrote:

Oh god.
Someone please save me from losing my mind. Anyone? Mark? Scrotie? Please!

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/8962/how-to-kill-a-troll-in-dd-3-5

Better yet, if the person you're responding is someone you think isn't worth your time, stop responding to them, let them have the 'last word' as it were, and move on. Or if you want and can, get a script for either Firefox, Chrome, or whatever browser you use that can 'ignore' posts from users you specify on the PoE forums and you'll be much better off.

Eh. I don't think it's P2W as such, depending on your definition. Can you buy a lvl 100 character? No. Can you buy tabs that make the game much easier to play? Yes. Are you being willfully ignorant if you say that tabs of any kind give you NO advantage whatsoever? Yes, most assuredly.

If you define P2W as "paying for an advantage in-game over non-paying players" then yes, stash tabs and especially the public trading tabs are P2W. Any QoL feature can be P2W because time is currency, and currency CAN buy you a significant advantage in the game.

However, most people were okay with basic stash tab sales, because it's a great way for GGG to make money, and it's not *AS* P2W as some other games.

Now, I don't care for the new public tabs as a system not because they're P2W or whatever, but because I think that separating the paid user-base and free user-base is not a good idea. I see no valid reason for implementing the new API as paid-only, aside from temporary technical reasons. GGG was doing just fine financially, so it's not like they *needed* the money.

And as for all the people saying that "there are third party things that do the same thing, hurr durr..." We went over this so much before public tabs were created. A game should not rely on third-party programs for major in-game features. It's just not a good idea. As a temporary fix it worked well enough, but it should NOT be a long-term solution.

Which means you could not care less about this game, or the people making it, as long as you get what you want.
Thank you for clarifying, greyspear.
Now please get out of my sight.

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johnKeys wrote:

Oh god.
Someone please save me from losing my mind. Anyone? Mark? Scrotie? Please!

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/8962/how-to-kill-a-troll-in-dd-3-5

LOL, I can't really help you here. My definition and your definition of p2w is different. I say if you take screenshots of your character screens before and after clicking the buy premium tab button and those character screens don't change, it's not p2w. Not when there are free ways available for any function that has a pay option.

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mark1030 wrote:

I say if you take screenshots of your character screens before and after clicking the buy premium tab button and those character screens don't change, it's not p2w.

I say any microtransaction which makes you more efficient at XP per hour, either directly or indirectly, is p2w.

Let's say a brand new league was starting, and you took three players of equal game knowledge, trade skill, and time commitment (and an Acquisition download link) and assigned them to the following the accounts:
1. No tab MTXs whatsoever
2. Four original tabs upgraded to Premium, no additional tabs
3. Several additional basic tabs but no premium tabs

Do you honestly believe the first account would come in tied with the second and third on an XP ladder?

The instant someone says "oh, it's just a convenience"... pretty much always p2w. "Convenience" means a superior result per unit time ratio, it can't mean anything else. And superior results per unit time for an aspect of competitive play is always p2w. (I think additional character slots aren't p2w.)

It is interesting to note, however, that PoE's p2w MTXs are trade-based, which means they depend on trade skill (a PvP activity) for their effectiveness. I guess from a strictly self-found perspective the only p2w aspect is vendor formulae with additional tabs (which isn't very efficient anyway).

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mark1030 wrote:

So you can afford 110 points for a stash tab bundle (assuming you bought a bundle on sale), but are unwilling to spend another 15 points to make one of those tabs a premium tab?

15 points which is only $1.50 to add... I mean its either a $1.50 to do trading in game or nothing to do it with procurement.. Theres no other advantage other than QOL..

People throw around P2W a little too much around here... I dont see GGG selling content and gear and exp boosters and free lvl 100s in the Shop only Costumes and some QOL shit with tabs... QOL is NOT P2W.. You wont get any further or make any better builds with or without the damn tabs. And you can still trade just like everyone else with or without the damn tabs too..

People should stop feeling so entitled to free shit when they already get so much for free to begin with. You get an ENTIRE fucking game and everything that comes along with it including ALL content. FREE!!! You dont pay a dime. If thats not enough for FREE for you then go BUY another game and see how much play you get out of it in comparison. I sure as hell cant think of another game thats going to give me multiple thousands of hours of play for $60... Yet i got that out of POE for FREE!

The Tabs, Improved Trading, and Currency Tabs are QOL and nothing more.. And they should be behind a paywall.. Considering what all we get for absolutely nothing to begin with. And considering you can STILL get infinite amounts of tabs and trade for free without spending a dime as well.. Its a free game.. want more tabs and dont want to pay?.. make more accounts! Want to Trade and dont want to pay?.. Use procurement. Its really that simple. EVERTYTHING you people keep calling P2W can ALL still be had for free at the end of the day.. Paying for it just makes life easier.. AKA QOL! And you dont WIN a DAMN thing.. other than maybe being able to play a few minutes more each day because you dont have to log on multiple accounts or dont have to use procurement.

I dont think you guys realize just how fucking ethical GGG REALLY are in comparison to other company's these days.. Lets look at some other games...

Mortal Kombat X.. Humm lets see first to even get the game i need to spend $60 THEN if i want all the characters to play with i need to buy those.. oh im not very good at doing fatality's.. oh i can buy those too. Og the Krypt.. Well since the Devs slowed getting coins down to a crawl i either need to play the game doing stupid boring shit forever or.. You guessed it.. PAY! ALOT of CONTENT has to be paid for AFTER buying the fucking game from the shop to fully enjoy everything it has to offer... Same goes for Killer Instinct.. You go buy the game and its missing half the playable characters. You have to turn right around and pay MORE money just to get ALL the CONTENT. Theres alot of games coming out these days like this. Games where you buy the game and.. oh.. Well if you want to play the game Online well that gonna cost some more money...

so im sorry if i cant box GGG up with these people because GGG isnt asking me to buy SOME of the game initially just to even play then telling me i need to pay more and more and MORE to get ALL the CONTENT!!! Theres company's out there charging $60 to even play SOME of their games and then wanting more and more just to get the rest of the game.. And i dont see GGG doing that so if GGG needs to charge me for some QOL tabs and needs a few bucks for shit that ONLY makes my experience a little better and a little less time consuming than if i go the free way.. Fuck It im cool with that.. Especially when there no real advantage... Especially when if i so i choose.. can ALL be done for free anyway.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

I say if you take screenshots of your character screens before and after clicking the buy premium tab button and those character screens don't change, it's not p2w.

I say any microtransaction which makes you more efficient at XP per hour, either directly or indirectly, is p2w.

Let's say a brand new league was starting, and you took three players of equal game knowledge, trade skill, and time commitment (and an Acquisition download link) and assigned them to the following the accounts:
1. No tab MTXs whatsoever
2. Four original tabs upgraded to Premium, no additional tabs
3. Several additional basic tabs but no premium tabs

Do you honestly believe the first account would come in tied with the second and third on an XP ladder?

The instant someone says "oh, it's just a convenience"... p2w. "Convenience" means a superior result per unit time ratio, it can't mean anything else. And superior results per unit time are always p2w.

It is interesting to note, however, that PoE's p2w MTXs are trade-based, which means they depend on trade skill for their effectiveness. I guess from a strictly self-found perspective the only p2w aspect is vendor formulae with additional tabs (which isn't very efficient anyway).

You assume that trading increases your experience per hour but ignore that trading takes time that lowers experience per hour. My current character has done very little trading. Maybe I haven't built up the same wealth as somebody else, but I also haven't spent the same amount of time trading. Essentially I was killing stuff while they were trading. So if exp/hour is the measure of winning, you neglect that you get 0 exp/hour while trading.

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mark1030 wrote:

You assume that trading increases your experience per hour but ignore that trading takes time that lowers experience per hour.

No, I assume post-trade XP per hour more than compensates for the loss. And so do you, unless you think top ladder players are getting there self-found.

The p2w MTXs are designed to make selling items ridiculously efficient. It's mostly about labeling tabs with prices, dumping items there between maps, and forgetting about them until whispered.

Only 4 tabs = management intensive
Acquisition = joke