Speed Running Labyrinth for Helm Enchants Feels Pointless

Completely agree with OP. I could enjoy labyrinth but there is no point doing that, especially side areas. Helmet enchantment runs are frustrating experience with lack of progression. Even perandus caches aren't there.

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Langhun wrote:

Completely agree with OP. I could enjoy labyrinth but there is no point doing that, especially side areas.

corrupting tempest, treasure key

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gh0un wrote:

Its not unrewarding. Its just unrewarding if you go about it the wrong way.
Its actually one of the most rewarding things GGG has ever implemented tbh.
Its a currency printing machine if you go about it the correct way.

Instead of trying to enchant your helmet with something YOU need, just enchant other good helmets that are sitting in your stash, or even buy reasonably good helmets and go enchant those.
You will probably never get the enchantment YOU need, but thats irrelevant.

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I could agree with that, but practically helmet I need with enchantment I need is not event on the market! Also there are people who enjoy crafting things themself. Lets say you will craft awesome helmet or buy unique helmet with perfect stats and then you won't be able to get desired enchantment.
Honestly I see nothing wrong about lowering RNG and thus price gaps between enchanted and non-enchanted helmets.

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mezmery wrote:

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Langhun wrote:

Completely agree with OP. I could enjoy labyrinth but there is no point doing that, especially side areas.

corrupting tempest, treasure key

Lockboxes in maps >> treasure key
Corrupting tempest is probably worth running at that day.

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Langhun wrote:

Completely agree with OP. I could enjoy labyrinth but there is no point doing that, especially side areas. Helmet enchantment runs are frustrating experience with lack of progression. Even perandus caches aren't there.

+1

I was actually buying perfect Rat's nests for 40-50c in first week and running for enchants. The moment i've got something food, like FLicker strike dmg or Kinetic Blast radius, i flipped it for 1.5-2ex . This is the money making part, so it is possible to get some rewards outside of the drops from trash you kill along the way to get pot charges back.

It is not that unrewarding in terms of fun per hour, but higher difficulty would definitely help to enjoy the runs more (my blade vortex, like charge up, Izaro wake up with his tiny head, and bam, he is ready to go down again. Fun .. :D

The skills you use in the lab should influence the enchant you get on helmet.

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Vhlad wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

It excessive because you think you should be rewarded ASAP

No, it's excessive because it's fucking excessive. Even if you're among the fastest lab runners at 5 mins a run, ignoring stash time/vendor time/trade time, 1/350 chance, that's 29.167 hours of grind for 1 helm for 1 build for 1 character for 1 league, again at 5 mins a run.

If I remember right, when I counted the enchants, it came out to be 218 for the helm. That's a 1 out of 218 if you are going for your main skill. Some guy ran a Bernoulli trial with those odds at a 1000 runs. It comes out to be a 94% chance of success. At 5 minutes a run, that's 83 hours to get your singular helm enchant.

I argued this point in another thread to goetzam, except the average run time there was 10 minutes, bringing that up 166 hours. His response was that 166 hours is nothing.

So good luck, convincing him of what the rest of us with lives reasonably call absurd, given the roll only happens after completing one single action and isn't something that can drop as the result of just naturally playing the game.

Good luck, actually, convincing of him any kind of imperfection actually, since I've read many threads here over the last few weeks that he drags into multiple pages on what appears to be a crusade to grind out anything that suggests the game needs improvement.

Like I can't take anyone defending a 1 out of 218 on a single helm enchant in a video game as anything less than being completely bonkers, not even worth taking serious if you are a person who has a couple other hobbies and occasionally likes to go outside.

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MadRabbitPoE wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

It excessive because you think you should be rewarded ASAP

No, it's excessive because it's fucking excessive. Even if you're among the fastest lab runners at 5 mins a run, ignoring stash time/vendor time/trade time, 1/350 chance, that's 29.167 hours of grind for 1 helm for 1 build for 1 character for 1 league, again at 5 mins a run.

If I remember right, when I counted the enchants, it came out to be 218 for the helm. That's a 1 out of 218 if you are going for your main skill. Some guy ran a Bernoulli trial with those odds at a 1000 runs. It comes out to be a 94% chance of success. At 5 minutes a run, that's 83 hours to get your singular helm enchant.

I argued this point in another thread to goetzam, except the average run time there was 10 minutes, bringing that up 166 hours. His response was that 166 hours is nothing.

So good luck, convincing him of what the rest of us with lives reasonably call absurd, given the roll only happens after completing one single action and isn't something that can drop as the result of just naturally playing the game.

Good luck, actually, convincing of him any kind of imperfection actually, since I've read many threads here over the last few weeks that he drags into multiple pages on what appears to be a crusade to grind out anything that suggests the game needs improvement.

Like I can't take anyone defending a 1 out of 218 on a single helm enchant in a video game as anything less than being completely bonkers, not even worth taking serious if you are a person who has a couple other hobbies and occasionally likes to go outside.

If you can't complete the lab in 5 min or under after running it numerious times you have no business running the lab at all. First and foremost. Go back to your 5 min caluculation because that is the reasonable expectation, enchantments aren't something that casual players should even really care about because you know you got 1 shot to do the lab before having to start over. That by definition is not casual user friendly.

Its more then 218 enchantments, not only that though there are multiple ones per skill, you may want one particular one, that doesn't change the fact there are multiples.

Who gives a fuck what some dude that ran it thru bernoilli trial did, this is a video game, you want to run it do it, if not don't.

Lives reasonably, you have less playtime on your whole account then 1 of my characters do, of course you are crying like a baby that you think it isn't fair that it isn't easier. But I'm not unreasonable I do support a stat alignment idea where you select str\int\dex and get one of those ones instead of just a full pool of mods.

Any kinda of imperfection, I generally like the game the way it was, when I supported it more heavily, does it need improvements on various things sure. But making it easier isn't making it better, that is for damn sure.

Poe isn't designed to be a casual ARPG, if you want to do other games and have more hobbies and stuff you can play the game but you arent going to get to enjoy all the game has to offer you. You are level 79, that level takes me what 3 days or less with smurf get to level to. If you think you are entitled to anything in the game just because you play for XX amount of time per night, you aren't. This game isn't D3, it isn't meant to compete with d3, nor should it ever be designed as such for the casual crowd you seem to fit in.

My brother and I 2-manned our way through the pre-map game, and the rewards we got from lab were often extremely confusing.

I believe they gave him a totem buff on his helmet (he's a 2H phys dmg duelist/slayer), while I got a proc on damage done I believe.

Basically, we both got something the other person could use, and that bothers me. Why? It's completely irrational; when developers introduce things to their game that makes no sense, to me it's personal.

I've been on suggestion/general forums for about 11 years now, analyzing games and coming up with ways to hopefully make them more interesting. Point being, I can definitely spot a badly designed concept, and the way lab enchants works is NOT a proper system.

When you rely on RNG so much, you're basically telling your player-base that you're afraid-afraid of making a choice for a function. I understand, as I've experienced what forums and players can be like for over a decade now.

However, that fear often leads to boring, illogical game design, and ultimately hurts the game. I'll suggest a few things here, but am well aware that my feedback/suggestions will likely never even be read by the right people (not pessimism, just reality).

Alright, so the goal is to give us a fun enchant that surprises us a bit, yes? Let's break down the problem:
-You cannot choose
-The system doesn't detect your role
-The process of getting a single enchant is extremely tedious and time consuming.

Where's the best place to fix it?
- Allowing players to choose
- Allowing the system to base the enchant off the gems in your equipped gear
- Nerf the Labyrinth's length.

Now, option one is too easy. I would alter it to give us a vague choice, such as
1. Melee skills
2. Ranged skills
3. support skills
4. spell skills
5. elemental skills

The game would then give a random enchant with a few parameters.

The second option would do this for you, by detecting the gems you use. It would detect active or passive abilities, but priorities which are in the majority.
For example, an aura Templar (as I am) would likely get something to assist with auras, since most of my gems are auras.

The third option is the most controversial, and splits the issue in two:
- Subjective Labyrinth experience
- Gear enchants.

This is my least favorite option, as the labyrinth should be balanced solely based on its own merit as content, as should the enchants at the end. Basically, let's not convolute the problem being solved.

Alright, that's my feedback. Again, I have few hopes of it being read, and ultimately I enjoy the process of problem-solving games I enjoy playing.

Feedback on my feedback is definitely welcome. Be constructive though, otherwise I probably won't reply. ~_~

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goetzjam wrote:

If you can't complete the lab in 5 min or under after running it numerious times you have no business running the lab at all. First and foremost. Go back to your 5 min caluculation because that is the reasonable expectation, enchantments aren't something that casual players should even really care about because you know you got 1 shot to do the lab before having to start over. That by definition is not casual user friendly.

Its more then 218 enchantments, not only that though there are multiple ones per skill, you may want one particular one, that doesn't change the fact there are multiples.

Who gives a fuck what some dude that ran it thru bernoilli trial did, this is a video game, you want to run it do it, if not don't.

Lives reasonably, you have less playtime on your whole account then 1 of my characters do, of course you are crying like a baby that you think it isn't fair that it isn't easier. But I'm not unreasonable I do support a stat alignment idea where you select str\int\dex and get one of those ones instead of just a full pool of mods.

Any kinda of imperfection, I generally like the game the way it was, when I supported it more heavily, does it need improvements on various things sure. But making it easier isn't making it better, that is for damn sure.

Poe isn't designed to be a casual ARPG, if you want to do other games and have more hobbies and stuff you can play the game but you arent going to get to enjoy all the game has to offer you. You are level 79, that level takes me what 3 days or less with smurf get to level to. If you think you are entitled to anything in the game just because you play for XX amount of time per night, you aren't. This game isn't D3, it isn't meant to compete with d3, nor should it ever be designed as such for the casual crowd you seem to fit in.

I like that you agree with the stat alignment, but can't help but feel that your ego is getting in the way of solving the problem.