Speed Running Labyrinth for Helm Enchants Feels Pointless

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Legendaris wrote:
They are probably working on creating a end game version of the labs.

I hope they go with tiers and mods like our current map system.

Silver and Treasure chest have a chance to drops a master key that unlocks a diffrent labyrinth that can be modded. Would be really fun.

But yea atm its pointless other than achievements and RNG enchants.

The Map version is probably going to be an upgrade booth, that would make the most sense and it would give people all the more reason to farm it now rather than later.

My assumption is the reason why the base RNG is soo high is because the map version wont have an RNG element to it.

Its probably going to be something like letting you upgrade one piece of get to the ilvl 75 version if i had to guess in all honesty, but thats just my speculation assuming its going to be a hard, high level map.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!

Labyrinth salt farm miner.

"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Mar 22, 2016, 1:43:30 PM
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My primary complaint/feedback: Make the shrine so it OFFERS us a new enchantment, and let us CHOOSE whether or not to overwrite our existing helm enchant.


That is a very reasonable thing. Because right now if you have a semi decent enchant, you don't want to enchant that item again, because it could be worse.
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Emphasy wrote:
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My primary complaint/feedback: Make the shrine so it OFFERS us a new enchantment, and let us CHOOSE whether or not to overwrite our existing helm enchant.


That is a very reasonable thing. Because right now if you have a semi decent enchant, you don't want to enchant that item again, because it could be worse.


Yes. Exactly.

Thanks all for the discussion. Interesting to see others takes on it.
It's a bullshit hamster wheel grind and the lowest possible form of gameplay entertainment (at the similar low level as Ctrl+click sac.frag instance farming).

I'm opting out completely.

E:
it should offer a set (say 3) enchants to choose from. This would lower the RNG bullshit & the player could choose to not overwrite.
When night falls
She cloaks the world
In impenetrable darkness
Last edited by morbo#1824 on Mar 22, 2016, 2:12:21 PM
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DragonsProphecy wrote:
I'd like to be given 3 options, and you'd know what they are, and be making the choice of placing it on a specific piece of gear. But you can only take 1.

I'd like to see similar on Cadiro.



Considering it can be used on gloves, boots and helm in merciless how would this be displayed, what if you are going for enchanting less say an EQ bonus, but a TS one appears and your other character is that and you have a rats nest in your stash there, can you grab it and enchant it? Doesn't that just cheapen the whole thing because you can just horde a stash full of appropriate stuff to enchant rather then actually caring what you really get?

I don't like or support any option that allows for you to select an enchantment specifically or to transfer an enchantment.


What if you put it up there and select int\str\dex, at least that narrows down the options to enchant, while allowing you to possibly get something useful you could sell that is appropriate for that base. For example lets say you are going for TS bonus, but get LA instead on your rats nest. It isn't what you wanted, but it is what people would want on that base and its pretty valuable, you still worked and took RNG, but its less so.



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+1 to OP, i have farm labs for 1,5 weeks nonstop and i feel i wasted my time for nothing and i have no fun from it and still not find my enhancement that i needed/wanted or just to my build.

It feels frustrated.


How many lab runs and what are you specifically going for?

Also enchantments aren't "needed" for a build unless it enables something your missing for example the reduction of aura cost for lets say a guardian character, all the other ones enhance builds.


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That is a very reasonable thing. Because right now if you have a semi decent enchant, you don't want to enchant that item again, because it could be worse.




This wouldn't be the end of the world but it removes the risk\reward especially for sick items that you don't want to replace. Overall I favor other ides.


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The Map version is probably going to be an upgrade booth, that would make the most sense and it would give people all the more reason to farm it now rather than later.


That is an interesting take on the situation, I think though it will be just like the current one, in that you run it and it is just a higher ilevel pool of mods, one is like farming early game maps and the other is like farming endgame maps. An upgrade would simply be a too easy option, unless the lab map was unique and rare, in which case the upgrade option would be fine.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Last edited by goetzjam#3084 on Mar 22, 2016, 2:15:48 PM
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goetzjam wrote:
It excessive because you think you should be rewarded ASAP


No, it's excessive because it's fucking excessive. Even if you're among the fastest lab runners at 5 mins a run, ignoring stash time/vendor time/trade time, 1/350 chance, that's 29.167 hours of grind for 1 helm for 1 build for 1 character for 1 league, again at 5 mins a run.

For curse immune maps, some players swap helms. Same with pvp. Same with other activities. Some of my characters use 3 different helms for different things. And I have 8 characters that use distinctly different helms, with no sharing, in just standard (which means there's no efficiency gain for seeking multiple different enchants, since all the helms they're needed on are different).

To be optimal I'm looking at minimum 15 helms for 437.5 hours of grind on average. But since we're talking about such a small chance per helm, that's a lot of extra suffering for the 1 in 20 players who are going to be grinding beyond 2 standard deviations from the mean.

Most players are lucky to finish a lab, including vendoring and stashing, in 10 minutes, which means the above times are double or more (875 hours in my case). If you think that calling that excessive is equivalent to wanting "ASAP reward" then you live in Korean mmo grind world and have absolutely no value or competition for your time.

With monster levels so low the lab is simply not entertaining/stimulating enough for that extent of grind. It's going to turn people off the game if it's left as is.

Not only will it get worse as new skills are added to the game, but every 6 months we have major game changes, passive overhauls, meta shifts, so realistically the results of those 875 hours of grind will be upheaved every 6 months, requiring it to all be repeated when gear and skills change. And this also assumes you never upgrade your helmet once you get the enchant you want, which means the hours of grind discussed are underestimated.

If it's that fucking bad for a standard player imagine how extra bad it is for a temp leaguer who plays a pile of different characters every 3 months. They're not going to bother at all. If GGG doesn't eventually recognize a problem here I'll be shocked.
Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
I feel the 1/13 for glove enchants and 1/15 for boot enchants are in a good place, especially since in most cases any glove or boot enchant will do something for your character.

1/350-ish for helm, when 99% of them do nothing for you? GGG must have been drunk or just said, fuck it, we need a hamster wheel for the addicts.

It doesn't work though. Even the fastest hamster needs a treat more than once every 30 hours.
Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
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goetzjam wrote:
It excessive because you think you should be rewarded ASAP


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No, it's excessive because it's fucking excessive.


No, the content just came out not long ago, not only that you are a standard player, look at this as a long term goal rather then caring about how fast you can reach the finish line.

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1/350 chance


How do you think the chance is this low. You have to keep in mind we don't know how to get the ilevel75 ones, which eliminates 1\2 of the enchantments right off the bat.


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that's 29.167 hours of grind for 1 helm for 1 build for 1 character for 1 league, again at 5 mins a run.


Yes because your calculations are correct, o wait it isn't.


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For curse immune maps, some players swap helms.


I have never seen this done, ever.

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Same with pvp.


Irrelevant in all game discussions.

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Same with other activities. Some of my characters use 3 different helms for different things. And I have 8 characters that use distinctly different helms, with no sharing, in just standard (which means there's no efficiency gain for seeking multiple different enchants, since all the helms they're needed on are different).


Interesting, but not my problem. Learn to make a more efficient build and you wouldn't need 8 different fucking helmets for 1 character LOL.

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To be optimal I'm looking at minimum 15 helms for 437.5 hours of grind on average. But since we're talking about such a small chance per helm, that's a lot of extra suffering for the 1 in 20 players who are going to be grinding beyond 2 standard deviations from the mean.


And the enchantments are essentially 2 free passive skill points, why shouldn't they be hard to get an powerful?

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Most players are lucky to finish a lab, including vendoring and stashing, in 10 minutes, which means the above times are double or more (875 hours in my case). If you think that calling that excessive is equivalent to wanting "ASAP reward" then you live in Korean mmo grind world and have absolutely no value or competition for your time.


If you push to do this and commit it doesn't take that long, not only that a casual player likely doesn't give nearly as much about enchanting helms as someone that sit on standard and builds a character that uses 8 bloodly helms.

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With monster levels so low the lab is simply not entertaining/stimulating enough for that extent of grind. It's going to turn people off the game if it's left as is.


Which is why they are adding a ladder to it (whenever that happens) it is also why likely they have a higher level one.

Make no mistake some improvement in terms of RNG can be made, but nothing like what people here are really suggesting, only really the stat alignment idea makes sense from a balance standpoint, everything else is just asking for handouts.

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Not only will it get worse as new skills are added to the game, but every 6 months we have major game changes, passive overhauls, meta shifts, so realistically the results of those 875 hours of grind will be upheaved every 6 months, requiring it to all be repeated when gear and skills change. And this also assumes you never upgrade your helmet once you get the enchant you want, which means the hours of grind discussed are underestimated.


Standard league problems right here. Sorry the game shouldn't be balanced for you guys.

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If it's that fucking bad for a standard player imagine how extra bad it is for a temp leaguer who plays a pile of different characters every 3 months. They're not going to bother at all. If GGG doesn't eventually recognize a problem here I'll be shocked.


What? Running the lab in temp leagues is logical it provides like I've said basically 2 passive points worth of benefits from something that doesn't cost you any currency to do just time. Not only that it gives people that ability to run it and sell the enchantments for the people that focus on the ladder instead.

The problem is that the expansion content has been out for less then a month and you don't have the 100 helms enchanted with what you want, FeelsBadMan

Don't let your personal attachment to standards or your extremely bizarre build get in the way of having a discussion about "too excessive"

Perhaps its the 8 fucking helmets for 1 character that is too excessive.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Wow Goez, re-read my post and correct your reply.
Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
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Vhlad wrote:
Wow Goez, re-read my post and correct your reply.


Just PM me whatever you think is incorrect.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.

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