I am a scammer - Account locked?

Don't degenerate the thread guys into taking sides - Some hate me for scamming, Others think its fine.
Both parties are equally correct.

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The poster is an unreliable narrator, we have no idea what he has or hasn't done. We have his post by which to judge his actions, and that is all.

This is very true guys I could be the world's biggest RMTer for all you know but for this discussion I would like you to take what I said at face value if possible.

What i'm more interested is anyone who has experience in getting account locked (not IP locks) getting there account back and what was involved in the process.Did you feel communication channels were open enough etc? Has there ever been history of bans for scamming. Lightwood being the biggest example i could find of a prolific scammer - not once did any history of him mention him getting locked out.

For anyone that has been locked out for a duration of there account - did characters go missing from your profile ? This is my main concern to be honest.

Great points everyone!

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Actkqk wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

You deserve worst.

Good maturity on your part.
Maybe I'm liking this from being the bad guy of the picture but this guy has not violated any rule.
The rules are very clear as to what we should not do:

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Restrictions: Under no circumstances, without the prior written approval of Grinding Gear Games, may you:

(a) Adapt, reproduce, store, distribute, print, display, publish or create derivative works from any part of the Website, Materials or Services other than in accordance with the Licence.

(b) Modify or adapt (including through third parties and third party tools) the game client or its data, other than in the normal course of POE gameplay as permitted in accordance with the Licence.

(c) Utilise any automated software or ‘bots’ in relation to your access or use of the Website, Materials or Services.

(d) Knowingly perform any actions that may cause the computers used to support the Website, Materials and Services (the “Servers”) to become overloaded or crash.

(e) Connect to the Servers through any software other than the authorised game client software.

(f) Use any data gathering and extraction tools or software to extract information from the Website or utilize framing techniques to enclose any of the contents of the Website.

(g) Use any meta tags or other hidden text which incorporate Grinding Gear Games’ name or any of its intellectual property including trade marks.

(h) Perform in-game services during your use of the Website, Materials or Services for any form of compensation outside of POE.

And that's it. Scamming others in the game does not violate any rule...
At some point you thought that this is an RPG?
Well, a person in real life can be very pleasant, friendly and correct. And the same person within an RPG can be a real shit... A scammer is a person like you or me playing at being "the bad guy". When you sell something at a high price, knowing that the price was high, you also play the same role in a certain way.
It may be distasteful? Of course... He deserves to be punished? If this is not indicated in the rules, NO, by no way.

I don't give a fuck lol if I could I'd waste my time trying convince GGG using money of course to basically delete them from the game. End of story

Hell I should.

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Actkqk wrote:

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Restrictions: Under no circumstances, without the prior written approval of Grinding Gear Games, may you:

(a) Adapt, reproduce, store, distribute, print, display, publish or create derivative works from any part of the Website, Materials or Services other than in accordance with the Licence.

(b) Modify or adapt (including through third parties and third party tools) the game client or its data, other than in the normal course of POE gameplay as permitted in accordance with the Licence.

(c) Utilise any automated software or ‘bots’ in relation to your access or use of the Website, Materials or Services.

(d) Knowingly perform any actions that may cause the computers used to support the Website, Materials and Services (the “Servers”) to become overloaded or crash.

(e) Connect to the Servers through any software other than the authorised game client software.

(f) Use any data gathering and extraction tools or software to extract information from the Website or utilize framing techniques to enclose any of the contents of the Website.

(g) Use any meta tags or other hidden text which incorporate Grinding Gear Games’ name or any of its intellectual property including trade marks.

(h) Perform in-game services during your use of the Website, Materials or Services for any form of compensation outside of POE.

And that's it. Scamming others in the game does not violate any rule...
At some point you thought that this is an RPG?
Well, a person in real life can be very pleasant, friendly and correct. And the same person within an RPG can be a real shit... A scammer is a person like you or me playing at being "the bad guy". When you sell something at a high price, knowing that the price was high, you also play the same role in a certain way.
It may be distasteful? Of course... He deserves to be punished? If this is not indicated in the rules, NO, by no way.

But this is all "legaleze" stuff, as in "Don't mess with our product". Scamming other players would have no place there. Afaik GGG's stance has always been that scamming is not welcomed but as long as it's within some limits they won't punish you, and the limits are judged on case by case basis. Seven hours of continued scamming seems enough for an investigation, and while that is going on the account lock has been put in place to prevent further harm.

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But this is all "legaleze" stuff, as in "Don't mess with our product". Scamming other players would have no place there. Afaic GGG's stance has always been that scamming is not welcomed but as long as it's within some limits they won't punish you, and the limits are judged on case by case basis. Seven hours of continued scamming seems enough for an investigation, and while that is going on the account lock has been put in place to prevent further harm.

Ahah so now this is truly interesting thank you for your insight.

I was under the impression scamming was FULLY allowed - I did not know the "limits" of this rule were judged on a case by case basis.If you could find the source of this information for me I would really appreciate it.The only info I have found backs up my original thoughts of legality.

"I'm very sorry for the loss of your item, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do to get it back. In the case of player trading, it's up to the players to confirm that the items they're receiving are the correct ones. We have a system in place that doesn't allow the trade to be completed until the items have been checked by both parties. It's our policy not to get involved in player trade disputes, as we don't have the resources to fully investigate each one and police them."

This was the supports response to someone asking for a refund on a scammed item last year in the support fourms.

"Unfortunately scamming is not against the rules. If you placed an item into trade and accepted it willingly, then it is your fault for being in too much of a hurry or not paying close enough attention. Not much can be done to rectify the situation other than the lesson learned to take your time and pay attention to what you're doing."

Another copy pasta from an old dev post.

Again if you can link me examples where there has been "limits" to this rule I would love to see them? Perhaps walling off your map device with decorations is considered an exploit.

Online anonymity really turns people into monsters.

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Online anonymity really turns people into monsters.

I don't know about monsters but fair point.I don't try to scam people in real life.

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Jojas wrote:

But this is all "legaleze" stuff, as in "Don't mess with our product". Scamming other players would have no place there. Afaik GGG's stance has always been that scamming is not welcomed but as long as it's within some limits they won't punish you, and the limits are judged on case by case basis. Seven hours of continued scamming seems enough for an investigation, and while that is going on the account lock has been put in place to prevent further harm.

You can say what you want but I still see nothing in the rules stating "you can scam just a little, do not overdo it or you will call our attention"... Where it says that?
Do not misunderstand me. I am against scams and I very rarely trade. I'm just a faithful follower of the rules and these say nothing of cases like this.

Maybe scamming ist tolerated, but bragging on reddit and instructing people how to scam isn´t?

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Actkqk wrote:

You can say what you want but I still see nothing in the rules stating "you can scam just a little, do not overdo it or you will call our attention"... Where it says that?
Do not misunderstand me. I am against scams and I very rarely trade. I'm just a faithful follower of the rules and these say nothing of cases like this.

This is what mods and staff members have kept saying to scammed players on the forum. I think GGG does not want to make it official for various reasons but they also don't want to have players who notoriously ruin other players' game.

Best what i can say as old ex-admin of private D2 realm - talk with support, you will not get your answers here. Be honest with what you done in the past, why you done it and wait for judgment.

Be aware that excessive scamming is actually not welcome in any game. I was playing EVE Online for great over 8 years and as far as scamming there is allowed and CCP don't get involved into lesser scams, there was few situations where excessive scammers got punished. Normally, community there handle this things, blacklist pilots and deal with scammers.

As old player, i personally don't like scammers, don't like scamming, being fair with my own trades and even if my listed item over 2-3 days went for example from 1c to 10c and it was listed for 1c, i will not call for 10c "because price went up" - it's my fault that i didn't noticed and changed price.

You got scammed - you took your lesson. Never trust anyone in this shady Cadiro trades.

When guy asked me for fee, i told him to fuck off because he didn't went for "i give you coins, you get item and trade it to me for your fee". That's how i could handle this - give me coins, we go to Cadiro, i take item and trade it to you for fee. Fair? Fair! At the end you may lose some coins what are pretty much farmable but you don't lose huge currency for some shady trades.

Being scammed for 8-10k coins is way less painfull than being scammed for 1-2ex. For this coins you not always buy a gear, for exiles... well, you should know.

Regards and good luck with your case.