Mildly weird that you haven't had a response, seeing as it is post 5pm on Monday. Maybe you've been bumped right down the priority list while they deal with users who issues are more important. I can't imagine they're busting their asses to get to you if there a lot of player support issues on the task list.
As for Garys response, take it at face value. He doesn't specifically say what type of "scam" others were banned for, he is simply letting others who asked in the thread know that there is a precedent for it. He cannot link it directly to your case because that would be tantamount to discussing a specific players account.
I said previously that continuing to post in this thread is not going to expedite your process, only direct contact with GGG will do that. In the interest of consistency, your thread should have been locked at page 1, and you should have received the stock answer "Thanks for the feedback, I have passed it on to Samantha, she will contact you, we don't discuss this in the forums blah blah blah."
The fact that your thread remains open is interesting. If I was a betting man (and I am, but only on horses and jellywrestling), then I would say that the reason would be because it A) Is an easily bumped thread and B) Serves as a warning that you might get your shit fucked up if you're being a detriment to the playerbase through your behaviour.
You're now the poster boy for "don't scam", because even if your account is not going to be banned, you've been locked, inconvenienced, and investigated.
I imagine GGG will probably end up clarifying their stance or processes around scamming because of the vast quantity of people doing it (and falling for, obviously) this league. But I wouldn't expect that for a while, it would probably need to go past Chris, and I bet he is busy as hell with the Dev team right now, and will be for a while.
I think all your points are pretty much spot on.
I must add recieved an email from Sam today (yay! communication)
"Hi there,
I am very sorry for the delay in reply but I'm afraid we are unable to speculate on how long it may take to hear back from the accounts investigations team. Currently we are experiencing a very high demand in customer support due to the recent release and we are very sorry for the longer than usual delays!
If there is anything we may be able to assist you with in the meantime please don't hesitate to let us know."
So its a hurry up and wait situation for me anyways - I still think a reason for the lock (even though we can pretty much guaranteed through timing its the trust scams) wouldn't be out of place.
The one good thing is depending on how my issue is resolved the community will get a firm answer (it seem to have been a long time comming) on if metaplays are allowed.
We can't comment on specific players or instances that have happened previously. The accounts team does however look into accusations of scamming. My post was made in regards to people wanting to know if they or other people can get banned if they engage in scamming.
This is a bit of a ridiculous reply to be honest. If you can get banned for something, whether it's scamming or not, it needs to be absolutely clear exactly what actions get you banned.
Just a chance of maybe being banned for some scams and not others, that's shady as all hell.
A really comprehensive list would be greatly appreciated and in fact necessary imo.
GGG actually doesn't have to give you a reason for the ban. The moment you sign the ToS to play their game, GGG can terminate your account for any reason, or for no reason at all, at any point if GGG determines that's the course of action to take.
This is true for any other games. All the ToS has this clause.
Actually they don't have to give you a reason for the ban. The moment you sign the ToS to play the game, GGG can terminate your account for any reason, or no reason at all.
Very true indeed.
But a clear stance on what is bannable would't go a miss.
Pretty much sums up my whole opinion on the matter. Don't usually care to post on these types of things, but this particular matter calls for attention. Would thumbs up if possible.
Spoiler
"
Zackro wrote:
"
Xavderion wrote:
"
Gary_GGG wrote:
We can't comment on specific players or instances that have happened previously. The accounts team does however look into accusations of scamming. My post was made in regards to people wanting to know if they or other people can get banned if they engage in scamming.
We need to know what counts as scamming though. I made a couple of nice deals™ this league, some people would call that scamming. We need clear rules here.
If you seriously can't tell the difference between a scam and a "ty for scam" scam then you probably wouldn't be able to commit a real scam.
"Ty for scam" scam, is selling/buying an item for either higher value or lower value than it's market value, you however are still paying the person for the item as it's a deal they made, it would be their own fault for inevitably not knowing market value.
However a Scam is using someones trust/good nature to get your "pay day" without holding up your end of the bargain.
ex1: Someone wants to buy a 20/20 non-corrupted gem, you go to sell it to them then you cancel trade and re-trade a 20/20 corrupted gem instead, that is a scam. Should this directly be bannable? Probably not on the first instance of doing it however if this person does it 50-60 times in a week then yes it should be even if it's a month-two month ban to prevent them from playing in that league on that specific account. I dont think it should call for a perm. ban. It's avoidable by using either the two eyes you were born with or the one you might have been born with and are currently using. If you happen to have no eyes I feel as though you probably aren't reading this and the least of your concerns are being scammed on PoE.
ex2: You find a headhunters in Cadiro, you offer it to someone if they tip, the deal is they give you 10 ex. They come in and you ask for half upfront, they give you 5 exalts. You kick them and ignore then you attempt to sell the headhunters again later. This is something that I feel is much worse than the above. While the above has the fail safe of you visually looking at the item this has absolutely 0 ability to have a fail safe. It's either you trust the seller enough to give half upfront or you pass on the deal. In the same aspect you are asking the seller to trust you. The scam can work both ways [skipping out on the other 5 ex etc]. There is absolutely no fail safe atm for this. Even a "3rd-Party" by using someone else still can't work since it could be your friend or their friend and either way they are going to be bias in that direction.
One of those is to me should be less punishable but the other I could see banning them for quite awhile.
Anyways back to everyone here claiming "ToS" like morons. This must be your first online game or something, every single game's ToS states this almost exactly word for word. "For the further avoidance of doubt, pursuant to clause 3, any rights you may have in respect of any elements or aspects of POE (including without limitation in respect of the in-game characters and Virtual Items) are strictly limited to a personal ‘licence to use’ such as part of the Licence and at no time do you acquire any ownership rights in respect of such." Which means GGG OWNS all your items, your characters, everything on your account is owned by GGG. You however are licensed to use them which is why it's considered "your account" but in no other way is it actually "your account". This means GGG holds the right to ban you at any given time without any reason or detail as is the same in almost every single online game ever. [Quite literally almost every single one as without that clause it opens up a backdoor to lawsuits for loss of virtual property] this isn't exactly rocket science.
Towards OP: whenever you do anything bad in this game the precedent shouldn't be "Did other people get banned for it" it should be "will I be the first to be banned for it" if you think that is a possible outcome then you probably shouldn't do it.
Also you can expect upwards of a week for account investigations, they literally have to sift through your trades [so everytime you got like 20c-40c for no return trades] etc and see if it was a scam by checking chat logs at the same time too. If you did this a decent amount of times in the past week they'll have to check all that. They'll also have to check if they received any emails about you, they'll have to decide as a team not just one person if your punishment should be light or if you should be banned for good.
Expecting VIP treatment after failing to adhere to probably the most basic of morale codes is pretty silly and it fails to show [at least to me] that you are being an adult about this whole situation.
Spoiler
Anyways just wanted to add: In my opinion there is a fine line between under paying/over charging that comes with the barter system in this game, however where this particular case steps over the line is where the user in question uses "someones trust/good nature to get your "pay day" without holding up your end of the bargain.". In other words the user manipulated the situation and the victim(s) emotions for self gain.
Arguably there isn't a clear cut rule against scamming or this type of in-game behavior, I would make the argument this behavior:
1) undermines the spirit of fair play
2) undermines the values of GGG as a company and the type of environment they want their players to experience.
3) If this behavior is not punished in anyway, it would promote a potentially toxic environment and possibly driving players away.
Ultimately OP might be used to deter and denunciate all others currently involved with this type of in-game behavior or those thinking about getting involved.
Personally, I hope you do get some form of punishment @accountlocked. In my opinion your scheme(s) are a perverted form of vigilante justice at best, and down right evil actions that violate my personal (and possibly other players) values at worst. Maybe perma-ban might be a tad on the "cruel and unjust" side if you will, but a ban for the remainder of the Perandus league with the account in question would be more fitting, provided this is the only wrongful behavior the account in question is involved with.
Anyways just wanted to add: In my opinion there is a fine line between under paying/over charging that comes with the barter system in this game, however where this particular case steps over the line is where the user in question uses "someones trust/good nature to get your "pay day" without holding up your end of the bargain.". In other words the user manipulated the situation and the victim(s) emotions for self gain.
Arguably there isn't a clear cut rule against scamming or this type of in-game behavior, I would make the argument this behavior:
1) undermines the spirit of fair play
2) undermines the values of GGG as a company and the type of environment they want their players to experience.
3) If this behavior is not punished in anyway, it would promote a potentially toxic environment and possibly driving players away.
Ultimately OP might be used to deter and denunciate all others currently involved with this type of in-game behavior or those thinking about getting involved.
Personally, I hope you do get some form of punishment @accountlocked. In my opinion your scheme(s) are a perverted form of vigilante justice at best, and down right evil actions that violate my personal (and possibly other players) values at worst. Maybe perma-ban might be a tad on the "cruel and unjust" side if you will, but a ban for the remainder of the Perandus league with the account in question would be more fitting, provided this is the only wrongful behavior the account in question is involved with.
Its bullshit, and you only can get banned if enough shit is stirred up on reddit.
There have been plenty of reports sent out because of people rmitng, cheating, all reports made with solid proof, that would require someone just to glance over it to be 100% sure.
But nope, no bans. But oh boy, if you get a reddit witchunt thread sicced on you, you are pretty much a goner and GGG will ban you even if innocent to please the masses. The forum bug report is a joke as well. Bugs that get posted on reddit get fixed in hours, while issues on the forums rot away.
