Sunder

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hokkerd wrote:
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gloobonious wrote:
I doubt that the AoE shockwave can CoC.
EQ-shockwave doesnt do that as well - tried and checked every aspect with a trypanon CoC.

Wait wtf.. why would that not work, the shockwaves count as hits right?
I've been theorycrafting around this for so long. Can the shockwaves proc bleed? Chance to freeze/shock/ignite? Life/mana gained on hit?

The shockwaves do count as Hits, yes. They will trigger on-Hit and on-Crit modifiers as per usual. Gloob is incorrect.
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Last edited by sherkhan on Jan 25, 2018, 3:48:32 PM
There is a typo when you hover over the gem skill that says sunder is compatible for axe weapon types. I tested this out and axes are not compatible with sunder. Hope this helps someone - thanks.
Please consider removing the "stop" mechanic of the waves. It only brings clunkiness and serves no purposes. It's a nerf for dual wielding playstyle as you can't spam without cancelling the waves and it's also painful for two-handed gameplay as you have to wait the waves to finish to get decent AoE.
Last edited by Astahr on Jul 6, 2020, 1:49:41 PM
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Astahr wrote:
Please consider removing the "stop" mechanic of the waves. It only brings clunkiness and serves no purposes. It's a nerf for dual wielding playstyle as you can't spam without cancelling the waves and it's also painful for two-handed gameplay as you have to wait the waves to finish to get decent AoE.

I agree. Revert old Sunder please.
No idea if someone actually still reads this, but:
From my impression so far the new Sunder feels awful. The damage per hit is great, but everything else....not so much. The waves are so slow that you can outrun them effortlessly. It literally takes several seconds for the wave to complete, and when you attack during that time it resets. Single target never was Sunder's strength, and still isn't, either.

The new Sunder plays like Ball Lightning if you could stack Slower Projectile Supports, and the old ball vanishing after hitting twice if you cast a new one.
Last edited by Unhold on Jun 27, 2020, 3:25:27 AM
forced myself 92->93 using new sunder

that was THE WORST gaming experience in my POE's history. literally, the worst

new sunder is abhorrent. any other melee skill does its job but better. few details:

0) visuals. POE's lack of clarity is legendary and this skill is a legend among legends. i do not know what kind of background makes this skill's visuals clear but i know that POE's maps is not it. it might be clear is .pptx presentation but not in game. things like 'range', 'effective area', 'shockwaves spacing' etc are all one blob of visual noise.

a) wave is slow. TOO SLOW. there is no way of scaling its speed except for - mandatory - enchant. slam theme is 'slow hits, big bonk' but that is too much slow in one package. no other skill is THIS SLOW

b) wave disappearing is a complete joke design-wise. it penalizes attack speed while not really rewarding you not having it because..

c) you cannot rely on Sunder hitting things. the AOE is very narrow and rarely covers entire pack. there are just too many instances of Sunder magically missing enemies for no reason. it there a blind spot somewhere? are the 'separate sections' properly aligned so no spots are left out? it certainly doesnt feel so

d) single target.. there isnt any. something about cancelling the waves makes them deal like ZERO damage on more than one occasion

in all, clearing with this skill is HORRIBLE. even in map like Waterways (long, narrow corridors) Sunder is too narrow to cover entire pack. sure, it happens from time to time. it is rejoice time then. wave being SLOW makes hitting moving targets impossible (try fighting Intervention Syndicate that jumps around you. sorry, just no).
same with wave reset. any kind of mob-dense scenario (breach + delirium) and you are f..ed. Sunder simply cannot handle it. you attack one side and want to cover you back with another swing, the first wave goes puff, they surround you, you die.

with current POE's mob density and mob AI (if any) - any skill that doesnt have conical or at least VERY wide rectangular AOE is useless. skill that allows for only one damage zone that has buggy hitboxes and dubious animation clarity is literally worse than auto-attack because with that you at least know what you are signing up for. with Sunder you expect a big boy slam skill and you get some unfinished prototype unfit for current game

solutions:
- wave does NOT vanish entirely. it just stops 'doing shockwaves'. this way you are still incentivised for sticking to bonk-bonk playstyle but you can reliably handle things like breaches or legions
- 50% more wave speed. current wave you can outrun with 20%ms boots.. sorry, it is not cool at all. you already hit rarely, make this hit count
- bonus to close range targets. right now this attack deals .75 *220% == 165% damage. if i read the skill correctly the shockwave CANNOT hit initial target. that means this is one of the worst single target skills in the game.


i would like to see a build that shows what this skill does best, what is its 'reason to be'. something that would answer the question 'why would anyone use this skill?'

personally i presume that pretty much each and every new player that started their POE adventure with Sunder already left the game. this skill is SOOO BAD
The new "staged" Sunder effect is pretty awful to play. I've tried it up till the high 70s but it is just too slow jerky and unpleasant.
One week Mayhem is a great opportunity to test a silly build you'd never use otherwise.

The skill is garbage. Clunky, slow, annoying to use.

☑ 25% less attack speed
☑ unscallable skill animation
☑ wave width is low enough so you can miss with RT at almost poinblank monster
☑ wave can stop on every tiny rock on the ground

I'd like to know better the person who has tested the skill before release (if even) and said "Yea, this is a great skill".
You guys are deliberately malicious, all the feedback feels like a "preach to deaf ears".

Pick any skill from Wolcen and will be 5 times better than 95% of PoE skills.
Last edited by a_z0_9 on Dec 7, 2020, 12:09:33 PM
After Sunder's remake, melee splash no longer works with Sunder. This is a HUGE nerf to builds such as Kitava's Feast + Sunder, which was a staple through 8+ years. As is the AoE increase doesn't make up for the melee splash loss. No longer can Sunder compete (it never could, but hey it got kind of close) with spell builds that clear entire mobs in the flash of an eye.

Rest in peace Sunder, I doubt GGG will do anything to change Sunder for a long time. I guess i'll just either rely on the bow build I run as well or just not play.

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