Talisman feedback: Hope GGG has learned a lesson here

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Entropic_Fire wrote:

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Zaanus wrote:

Not really wise words. Shags assumed I was a 50 hour league player, I am not. If the bar for this game is to be set at 8-10 hours of daily playing for getting things like MTX rewards, that is just as shitty as their racing setup (which also requires significant no-lifing). I used to actually win/place in the CB races, now I can't be bothered.

My characters for HTC
90 SRS (Jungle Valley boss), gems nearly hit 20 twice
85 Siege Ballista (possessed piety in a zana daily)
75 Chaos Incin (now the highest)
4-5 others in that 30-60 range

I self found/killed 29 challenges in about 6 weeks of play this league. I also only played one character in SC league so I could focus on clearing all of the top level content.

You have limited play time, and you further limit yourself by playing hardcore mode. Maybe if your primary goal is completing challenges you should use the time you have more effectively? Or should GGG continue to make the game easier to accommodate players that intentionally handicap themselves, but still want to feel accomplished?

Nice spin there, but I'm not here to argue with you. No matter what you post on the forums there will always be dissenters, which is cool. I'm just here to give my feedback. I fully understand hardcore makes some things more difficult. Realize you got pretty lucky to get four rarest tier uniques to drop for you. I played this league for 10 weeks or so and self found 0. Id guesstimate off my char xp that I did at least 400+ maps, aside from all the other xp


To recap, in my opinion only:
Talismans were a good idea and mechanically interesting, but blue/white spam ruined it and made me less engaged with league mechanics than could have been otherwise.

MTX challenges were garbage, I'm guessing < 1% of HTC completed helm. Who wants just a pair of boots and gloves. Pffft. I'd prefer MTX were more doable for a dedicated (but not nolifing) player. MTX sets are sets. Who wants to wear just a piece or two :p

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Entropic_Fire wrote:

Do you think the helm should be available to everyone that plays the league, or only the players that dedicate the most effort to completing challenges?


I'm not trying to argue with you, just providing my perspective. The forum has been flooded with "make the game easier" threads for a while now, and they seem to be getting their wish. I just want the devs to know that many of us that actually play the game don't share that perspective.

I think if you are basically dedicating time to the game over the course of the league, within reason, the challenges should be doable in the course of most normal play. Everyone is obviously a trap. People who log on and play 10 hours for the whole league obviously aren't a reasonable target for this kind of thing. But if you are a regular and dedicated player who doesn't screw up too badly and plays say 10-15hrs/week, they should at least be within reach.

The challenges that were unreasonable, in my view:
ID 26 new unique items (ive got 11, playing quite a bit this league)
Fully level zana (requires at least some zana rotations for most realistic cases).
Unnatural influences (two spirits in a mob, god fucking annoying as shit and very rng)
Kill the Avatar of thunder (seriously, ugh, 4 specific unique drops)
ID 4 of 8 rare tier uniques (ugh, mor rng)
Kill Aztiri - if you're goimg to make an optional super boss that 1 hits the crap out of 90% of builds, maybe not include it on meta achievements
2 unique strongboxes, probably 1,000+ zones "played" in this league, no unique boxes found

fully level zana = do daily rotations, nothing "difficult" or "rng gated".

unnatural influences = run vaal side area's, they spawn higher random events from my experience. Alternatively roll ghost's on a map and force 2 in a rare.

Kill the avatar of thunder = dedicated build challenge, acceptable for an RPG that promotes re-rolling.

id 4/8 = yup RNG gated, luckily ways exist to bypass RNG?

Kill atziri = read "kill the avatar of thunder"

2 unique strongboxes = run oba's cursed trove unique map, done.

So yeah i only agree with the 26 league unique's challenge assessment and even then all i have to say is, some people actually enjoy hard challenges that require a lot of effort so some of these are for the dedicated crowd.

you can easily do

unique strongboxes/atziri/unnatural/zana without much difficulty.

Everybody could do 21/28 if they wanted in this league with normal amounts of play-time.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Nobake wrote:

The last leagues have given me the feeling that while GGG gets some pretty awesome ideas, they also really like to tack on unnecessary extra baggage to make the good ideas as little fun as possible.

Take Talisman:
New drop-only amulets with unique implicits that can be very powerful. Use them, or upgrade them by fighting stronger enemies, culminating in a big boss fight for the most powerful amulets. Pretty sweet, right?

Now make all the talismans corrupted to ensure that few are worth using and none are really good, and make it so you need hundreds to do the upgrade thing. Sounding a whole lot less fun now. Thus I now have a bunch of talismans sitting in a stash tab because I keep picking them up but can't be bothered to upgrade them or even check the affixes.

Maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic here, but Warbands was also a good idea gone horribly wrong. I still enjoy the core game, and there's still plenty for me to explore in terms of builds and skills, but I worry for the future content if GGG keeps this up.

Yeah, both warbands and talisman sounded really, really cool and like great additions to the game, but then were duds. Both times I reached 80-something and began to look for all the cool new content, only to find it all gated behind literally 100 layers of RNG. I fought a general 2 times in weeks of playing warbands with the webpage that showed where they spawned open at all times, killed hundreds of redblades hoping for that helmet mod or even an exclusive unique. Instead I got nothing for it but realising I may as well have played on standard, cause as a solo player who doesn't like to trade fresh leagues rarely mean much.

Talisman as well sounded amazing, but I got burnt out before christmas even, there was nothing fun about upgrading 125 white/blue amulets that I got 400 wrong-type duplicates of. GGG need to stop making new content that only 1% of their playerbase or less will ever see simply because of the time required to ever get a glimpse. Or at least stop advertising it as something cool you'll get to try out. Ambush and Nemesis were some of the most fun I ever had with this game but the leagues have been real stinkers ever since.

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Boem wrote:

Everybody could do 21/28 if they wanted in this league with normal amounts of play-time.

Peace,

-Boem-

Sure, and that's what I'll probably end up with.

I've no problem with hard challenges, but make the MTX pieces come in at 5/10/15/20 or something instead of requiring 28/29 for the set.

Challenges don't have to gate the MTX set that hard.

And even if I do manage to get on my horse this week and do 28/29, that won't change my opinion of it or the overall % of THC players obtaining it.

A lot of you mistook for this for a whine (I don't really care that much about the league MTX, it doesn't even look good) rather than a critique of the general approach.

Whether I'm one of the 1 or 2% of THC who complete it or not, it would be more motivating and reach higher retention for players if they were to gate it more flexibly.

I thoroughly disagree with you. The gating should be that hard, it's free mtx for doing stuff in the game, you need to earn that. The helm is the least required piece to look good (and not just because it's ugly as all hell), there are TONS of excellent helm mtxes out there to compliment the set.

You have to go into HC expecting the gating to be harsher since dying wipes out your progress, but for those that do it, man that should feel good.

The flexibility in recent challenges is astounding, and judging by your supporter tags you should know that. Don't pull a "they give you an inch so ask for a mile".

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Archwizard wrote:

The flexibility in recent challenges is astounding, and judging by your supporter tags you should know that. Don't pull a "they give you an inch so ask for a mile".

Flexibility requiring 28/29 for challenges for mtx is "astounding"? <.<

I'm amused how this got tracked into solely about MTX for challenges, which was like, an afterthought to the original post.

I can tell you this - more than one person on my friends list I talked to about Talisman looked at the challenge list and said "yeah, saw that list, but fuck that it's not reasonably doable" and then didn't play this league at all. That's a loss for all of us and should be at looked at holistically and given in feedback.

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Zaanus wrote:

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Archwizard wrote:

The flexibility in recent challenges is astounding, and judging by your supporter tags you should know that. Don't pull a "they give you an inch so ask for a mile".

Flexibility requiring 28/29 for challenges for mtx is "astounding"? <.<

I'm amused how this got tracked into solely about MTX for challenges, which was like, an afterthought to the original post.

I can tell you this - more than one person on my friends list I talked to about Talisman looked at the challenge list and said "yeah, saw that list, but fuck that it's not reasonably doable" and then didn't play this league at all. That's a loss for all of us and should be at looked at holistically and given in feedback.

Do you remember the old 8/8 challenge set up? Seriously. Do you remember how they gave out t-shirts to the first 50 to do them and not all t-shirts were claimed the first time (or two, I kinda forget).

They didn't offer MTX at all. If you didn't finish 8 you got nothing. If you were the 51st person to finish 8 you got nothing.

So yes, getting mtxes for completing 7/32 challenges (21.9 %), and then every 7 after that (every 21.8%) and then getting the totem starting at 18 and a piece every 2 after that is ASTOUNDING in terms of rewards for challenges completed compared to the past.

You want a holistic view, there it is.

If people looked at this challenge list and decided NOT TO PLAY AT ALL that's amazingly dumb. You don't like the challenges? Ignore them and play the content anyway.

Something like 14 of the challenges were doable just by playing the damn game through maps. 21 was easy with a little dedication (it's what I expected to get honestly).