GGG Please answer Cheap Construction Jewel vs Saboteur Passive

You're confusing traps in queue to traps set on the ground. As far as I know (been a long time since I played trapper so I could have missed something), nothing increases the amount you can queue. That is limited to 3 and has a cooldown for each to be ready. You want the +1 trap to give you a queue of 4, but it doesn't work that way.

So, no, PaperRat's first assumption is not wrong. That's how it works. Your interpretation of +1 trap is what's wrong.

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mark1030 wrote:

You're confusing traps in queue to traps set on the ground. As far as I know (been a long time since I played trapper so I could have missed something), nothing increases the amount you can queue. That is limited to 3 and has a cooldown for each to be ready. You want the +1 trap to give you a queue of 4, but it doesn't work that way.

So, no, PaperRat's first assumption is not wrong. That's how it works. Your interpretation of +1 trap is what's wrong.

Then what is the fucking point of the trap jewel which gives +1 trap when there is an existing passive which does the same thing.

One of them has to queue 4 traps.

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Zinja wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

You're confusing traps in queue to traps set on the ground. As far as I know (been a long time since I played trapper so I could have missed something), nothing increases the amount you can queue. That is limited to 3 and has a cooldown for each to be ready. You want the +1 trap to give you a queue of 4, but it doesn't work that way.

So, no, PaperRat's first assumption is not wrong. That's how it works. Your interpretation of +1 trap is what's wrong.

Then what is the fucking point of the trap jewel which gives +1 trap when there is an existing passive which does the same thing.

One of them has to queue 4 traps.

There are benefits from stacking traps under emerging monsters. And there is more than just the one passive that grants you +1 trap. Look down in the lower right of the tree. You know that time between when you set a trap and when it expires? That means something. If I can stack 6 traps under dominus as his 2nd form rises, that would be better than stacking 3. Right? You can see that, can't you? Just because there are mechanics that can reduce the trap timer doesn't mean all builds want that. If you want the traps to go off immediately and with no limit to how many you can toss, just self cast the spell.

Edit: And no, one of them doesn't have to let you queue more traps.

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mark1030 wrote:

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Zinja wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

You're confusing traps in queue to traps set on the ground. As far as I know (been a long time since I played trapper so I could have missed something), nothing increases the amount you can queue. That is limited to 3 and has a cooldown for each to be ready. You want the +1 trap to give you a queue of 4, but it doesn't work that way.

So, no, PaperRat's first assumption is not wrong. That's how it works. Your interpretation of +1 trap is what's wrong.

Then what is the fucking point of the trap jewel which gives +1 trap when there is an existing passive which does the same thing.

One of them has to queue 4 traps.

There are benefits from stacking traps under emerging monsters. And there is more than just the one passive that grants you +1 trap. Look down in the lower right of the tree. You know that time between when you set a trap and when it expires? That means something. If I can stack 6 traps under dominus as his 2nd form rises, that would be better than stacking 3. Right? You can see that, can't you? Just because there are mechanics that can reduce the trap timer doesn't mean all builds want that. If you want the traps to go off immediately and with no limit to how many you can toss, just self cast the spell.

Edit: And no, one of them doesn't have to let you queue more traps.

That is exactly the kind of scenario I am looking at. But you are limiting yourself to dominus where you have an insanely huge amount of time before second form emerges.

lets see how you do that 6 traps.
start -cast 3 - wait till the next 3 get recharged - then cast 3 again. - finish

From start to finish encompasses two delays -
1. delay for first 3 traps to expire
2. delay for boss to spawn in second form.

But not every boss works like that.

also using multiple traps support gem decreases the overall damage per trap.
If you can throw 4 traps in quick succession like you would expect with the skill then you would have laid grounds to kill the boss quickly before it emerges.

Time to emerge/activate is not the same for all bosses in the game .

And that's the price you pay for using a trap instead of self cast. You can't just keep casting them at will. You have to wait for the cooldown.

If the cooldown is a problem for you, why are you using traps in the first place?

There is a current passive (and soon to be an Ascendency node) that reduces the cooldown. Those will decrease the time you have to wait before the next trap is ready.

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mark1030 wrote:

And that's the price you pay for using a trap instead of self cast. You can't just keep casting them at will. You have to wait for the cooldown.

If the cooldown is a problem for you, why are you using traps in the first place?

There is a current passive (and soon to be an Ascendency node) that reduces the cooldown. Those will decrease the time you have to wait before the next trap is ready.

Ofcourse you cant keep casting them at will, but when it says you can lay down +1 trap AT A TIME should it not do what it says?.

you are missing the point of this question to GGG .

what is the point of the Cheap Construction Jewel vs Saboteur Passive which does the same thing.

If there is no real buff to the queuing of traps Then the cheap construction jewel should not even exist as it does absolutely nothing that the existing passives don't already do.

Why? Why shouldn't the jewel exist? Maybe I want to be able to set 12 traps at a time. Why would you prevent allowing that?

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mark1030 wrote:

Why? Why shouldn't the jewel exist? Maybe I want to be able to set 12 traps at a time. Why would you prevent allowing that?

if it has to come down to the time spent in casting 12 traps , you can cast the skill yourself. Like you yourself said it earlier.

even that is besides the point , You have sunblast +20% reduction = for instant activating traps.

Why should the trap jewel exist when it does the same thing as the passive?

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Zinja wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

Why? Why shouldn't the jewel exist? Maybe I want to be able to set 12 traps at a time. Why would you prevent allowing that?

if it has to come down to the time spent in casting 12 traps , you can cast the skill yourself. Like you yourself said it earlier.

even that is besides the point , You have sunblast +20% reduction = for instant activating traps.

Why should the trap jewel exist when it does the same thing as the passive?

Almost every jewel does the same thing as a passive. Every jewel that has damage, resist, attack/cast speed, stats, and just about every other mod you can think of gives you the same thing as nodes in the tree.

I don't want sunblast. I want to stack traps and run. Traps triggered by sunblast don't target an enemy if none triggered it. If I throw 3 fire traps, 3 bear traps, 3 lightning traps, and 3 misc spell traps, I want them all to be sitting on the ground waiting to be triggered as I lead monsters to them. If you want to play a trapper like a caster, where you just stand in one place and never have to wait for a cooldown, what's the point of the traps? Let me have as many traps as I can have. Your opposition to this jewel is completely illogical. You probably don't even know there is another node on the tree that gives +2 traps. Should they get rid of the node that gives +1 trap because you could get that somewhere else on the tree?

If a thing doesn't benefit your build, it doesn't mean it's useless.

With only two multitraped skills I can literally throw 12 traps in less than 2 seconds.