Ascendacy Classes looks like a step backwards

"

Poe's design philosophy

"

wild_captain wrote:

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

Once you give up the idea that what the character looks like has nothing to do with your "build" it makes this argument look as silly as it does to us. That's what it comes down to. You want a elemental bow character. Great. Play one. You're just pissed that it doesn't look like a Shadow. Get over it.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Why do people actually act like ascendancy classes take away diversity or something.

If I wanted to play a summoner duelist it would still suck ass before or after ascendancy. If ascendancy was to away any options, it would equally add just as many options to begin with.

"

NotRegret wrote:

No other feature of the game is class locked at all.

"

NotRegret wrote:

One thing you need to realize is this it the first thing ever in the game that has class restrictions this runs contrary to Poe's design philosophy which allows anything to combined with anything provided you give up something. It's the type of design logic that can destroy a game. Since a major part of a characters poe is now class-bound that will trickle down into everything else. I could foresee it reaching a point where development keeps balancing and defining things based on the ascendancy classes until what exists in the tree is what defines a character.

There are three problems with ascendancy classes which have a horrible combination. First of all they are powerful, enough to define a build, I wouldn't be surprised if good builds in the future are measured by how well they interact with the ascension tree. Second classes cannot reach each others ascendancy, the node tree allowed any class to reach any node if they were creative and willing to give something up. No gems are class locked. No other feature of the game is class locked at all. Interesting builds in Poe relay on classes gathering unusual combinations of stats and effects. It's also nessary to feel like it's 'my character' instead of one that was predefined. Since the tree's are build defining certain combinations are just not supported and I feel like my playstyle is being forced. Third the number of abilities is too low. A typical tree only has about a dozen or so points I don't really feel like I have choices. Since many of the points force a linear pathing from prerequisites the number is much lower than what it appears.

Overall by looking at the past characters I have made I'm not happy with how they would interact with the trees. The more unusual builds are simply not supported very well, it feels like the game is fighting me and telling me how to build, and the more generic builds feel like I am not even given any real choices I go down a small path that was set for me.

It's telling my fire trap templar shouldn't put his skills in a searing touch, they should be in the helm, it's telling me to stand still in concentrated ground when I want to run around, its' telling me I am running too many auras to have damage transferred to my mp pool, or that I am not running enough energy shield or crit. I could say the same thing about a lot of other builds. I might be able to find some points that can work with them, but the process is more about crossing out everything that is noncompatable and picking the few ones that remain which feels terrible. Or I might remove aspects of my character I wanted and substitute in aspects of the character that the ascendancy tree wanted which feels even worst. The trees do not feel like they supplement builds but command them (given that new players complain the game doesn't give them any direction this seems intentional). I see this as more experience players being betrayed to hand hold new players. I think if players were allowed to buy their way into other classes trees by paying extra points (sort of like how on the passive tree I can spend many points traveling to other classe's zone) the system would be a lot better.

Now for more generic characters I don't feel like I have much of a choice either also it feels like it forces certain play styles on me. Let's use an example of a generic caster witch. I don't like inconsistent things in my character. I don't want random procs or gain x every y seconds. That's preference and Poe supports that. I can choose to not focus on spell crit and not use the uniques with the procs, and not focus on the elemental procs. I could even lower the crit chance for a power boost with a gem and make things as consistantas I want. Another player might do the opposite: grab all the crit and crazy proc gear. Do you get any choice about this in the elemantalist tree? (and lol if you were expecting damage boosts for your vortex blade witch!) It's not just my preference for consistent effects, it's all classes having a major part of their identity shaped by a small number of options. The tree reminds me of d3 and new wow crap where so much of character identity is pre-set.

"

wild_captain wrote:

Only people with no imagination or creativity claim that class bound ascendancies are a bad thing. Oh and those who only like one class (mainly appearance, i pity those the most).

Things are simple as that if you do not belong in the categories mentioned above:

If you are a min-maxer then ascendancies are good
If you like alternative builds then ascendancies are good
If you like experimenting then ascendancies are good

Why are good you will ask me, simple cause they offer in every instance i mentioned new ways and extra toys to play with, IN EVERY SINGLE WAY IMAGINABLE. The following quotes is more than enough to explain further

"

wild_captain wrote:

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

Once you give up the idea that what the character looks like has nothing to do with your "build" it makes this argument look as silly as it does to us. That's what it comes down to. You want a elemental bow character. Great. Play one. You're just pissed that it doesn't look like a Shadow. Get over it.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Why do people actually act like ascendancy classes take away diversity or something.

If I wanted to play a summoner duelist it would still suck ass before or after ascendancy. If ascendancy was to away any options, it would equally add just as many options to begin with.

Lets continue though, NOBODY is FORCING you to USE ASCENDANCIES, from what ive got so far they are NOT mandatory. So you want to use the fire trap on your boots or your searing touch fine use it there you just wont take the notable or you can take it and waste your skill points, you want to run around like a caffeine overdosed hyperactive bloody bastard, do it you just wont have the bonuses of that notable or simple just DONT USE THAT NOTABLE AT ALL.

"

NotRegret wrote:

No other feature of the game is class locked at all.

Ill take that a little further and tell you that it is wrong, starting stats are different for every bloody class. So in a way if you want to get the maximum strength possible you are "locked" to play Marauder. See? Besides that there is some lore in the game, that people often dont take into account, THEY SHOULD.

As for the d3-wow comparison, Ascendancy nodes are just new and jucier versions of the nodes already in the tree, they are the equivalent of DnD's prestige classes, and that alone is awesome enough to counter many arguments.