Endgame Gear Impossible to Get or Just an Illusion?

Let's just say we have things we don't like in this game. Since the beginning, I think the economy is terrible, they pretty much didn't change much about it. Some things aren't gonna change. Endgame gear is probably also one of these things. You can continue arguing about it but that is unlikely to change or accept it and move on.

"

BlackStarDark wrote:

Indeed i don't think it's the best option to just sell those items but to tweak some minor stuff to make them let's call it less godly.

I'm not actually talking into personal benefit since I'm happy with the budget build I got by now, even if it's lacking stuff atm.

I don't really either rage or get pissed, I just found myself in a well I wouldn't get out of and I tought that others might be in the same situation, which might not be the case anyways.

I know that the principle of this game is Grinding, I've played far too many ARPG's to get the idea of what it is. Yet I feel this is just not a bit more challenging than other games, it's far too off the chart afaik. Which again leads this to people trying to compare this to D3 which is not what I want or compare this game with.

As an example of a regular RPG, I played aion for 5 years, and took me around ~ 2 years to get the best of the best ingame, however, there were options in the middle of it, which were quite more affordable than what it is here, Jumping from 450 to 500 shouldn't mean that much currency if you get to think of it, whereas here it means a lot.

Thinking of what you said, asking stuff to be sold would be quite boring, whereas modding the values of the rolls might be the way to go, somehow.

Anyways ~ I'm going to sleep, gonna read any other reply or comment to this tomorrow, thanks all for the constructive comments and toughts on this. I can see that this is a great cummunity at least ;D

We've had a few roundabout discussions previously about the itemisation of the game, and how fitting in a more natural progression of item rolls/affixes could be achievable without wrecking the balance and challenge of the game - but nothing has really come of it.

Part of it comes down to the nature of the build system - any character can use practically any item as part of any build using any skill to do almost any content. I mean, one of the most powerful character designs in the game is a witch, wielding a hammer, that stacks armour, and uses a melee attack to cast spells. How fucking mental is that?

If you try and streamline or soften the curve of item progression, it becomes almost necessary to modify the way that characters can be built and designed to ensure that items can be generally more useful or have greater functionality.

The other potential option is to lock certain tiers of rolls for items to certain levels of content (Uniques/Rares drop within a certain range depending on map/story progression). This makes a lot of sense, until you remember that GGG has designed the game to be about multiple character rolling - they want to avoid you being able to efficiently farm GG items for any and all builds with only one character, as that will impact on the challenge (and point) of rolling new builds.

I'm not trying to be a downer (its a mental condition, sorry), but when you start digging into these ideas, you see how much influence and impact that can have, and just how tricky they can be to implement in a way that just won't out and out break stuff.

Your OP is in the right place - "A part of the playerbase would like better access to high end items that provides fun and min/max potential." It is just getting to that point without screwing the game up that is the challenge. Often the easy answers are more tricky than they seem :(

My browser is telling me I've spelt most of this incorrectly, but I think it is being all USofA with its spelling again.

Well with incinerate or poison arrow and the right build you can do uber, dont really think its a massive ex investment for those if you want the best of the best you will either have to play a huge amount or play the trade game a lesser amount.

Endgame gear is not perfect gear, there is a massive difference in that.

your stuck in the D3 mindset that you need near perfect 6 t1 affix items in all slots to be "endgame."

You can be endgame with 1/100th of the price of a mirror. ((Prob even cheaper)

Being perfect in everything should be long term and nearly impossible for the "average" player to get, that's the point. If you move perfect down, that changes the item grind in alot more drastic ways then you think.

Yet again I repeat, you can beat everything in the game not even spending 1 mirror worth of gear and 100% steamroll it. Endgame not is not perfect gear, if you don't want to farm end game gear after hitting level 90+ and beating everything it's okay. Play another game, wait until another ladder, play a new character. Just don't rage on the forums that you can't "finish your character." After enjoying the game for 100+ hours.

"

BlackStarDark wrote:

"

ladish wrote:

well the first thing is to accept that there are some builds you won't be able to afford off the bat. There are even some builds that you probably won't ever be able to try. The trick is to find and enjoy builds that you can actually play within your means. Playing the leagues is a good way to figure out what to aim for.

Indeed I accepted that, but still my toughts are that everyone should be able to play any build, given enough time to gear up.

I'm playing warbands with a 30k Tooltip Tornado shot ranger and I'm doing fine, the point is that I'd love to get me a "next level" bow, which would increase my dps to around 50 / 60k tops, and that would cost me around 360Ex or 1 / 2 mirrors. And I don't think it should be that way. I serously dislike the player based commerce, yet there's no sollution to that unless GGG decides to do something.

I assume I'd have to either deal with it or play something else.

Im in standard using the mirrored Glyph Bow and my dps is 45k...2 gems are dedicated to MF but still...Im using all GG gear and 2 21/20 Heralds...

I think at the very most they should bring the hybrid rolls back to masters (and for casters too spell dmg%/+mana), but I like it as is too.

Play fresh leagues and forget about permanent leagues, the economy is much more tolerable and active.

Now getting wealth in this game is all about using an effective build with good clear speed, if you are not willing to do this and want to wing it with your own creative build, then do not expect much else than hitting the wall.

I always run a bit of a cheesy toon now with a bit of mf for my first roll in new leagues, simply to create some wealth, or see what interesting item drops I can make a build around.



Got this nice wand this league and had a great time making a build around it.

But you have to grind, learn how to grind well and never get tired of it; you have to be comfortable getting cheesy and greedy. God knows how many thousands of rares you have to ID before finding a couple of nice gg items.

Price is not always justified. I was there when mirrors were more or less affordable. Price tripled over few months time all of a sudden. Smells like monopolists and flippers.

I dont have a problem with those.

But...

... lots of those gg items are crafted using our scammed exalts.

I got scammed by a top flipper/crafter myself in a 6l lottery.
He asked me to stop donating fuse because it was not good for my wealth.
Suuuuure. And 2 min later that same 6l chest was for sale.
Didnt know the eternal scam back then.

An other load of top sellers/flippers got banned.
Guess what? ...

If prices are high, the items you loot will yield higher prices too. Adjust your prices to the market and it wont really matter wheter a exalted is 30 or 50 chaos.

Also, you should give temporary leagues a go. Sounds like your issue is a bit "permenant" league related :)

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Endgame gear is not perfect gear, there is a massive difference in that.

your stuck in the D3 mindset that you need near perfect 6 t1 affix items in all slots to be "endgame."

You can be endgame with 1/100th of the price of a mirror. ((Prob even cheaper)

Being perfect in everything should be long term and nearly impossible for the "average" player to get, that's the point. If you move perfect down, that changes the item grind in alot more drastic ways then you think.

Yet again I repeat, you can beat everything in the game not even spending 1 mirror worth of gear and 100% steamroll it. Endgame not is not perfect gear, if you don't want to farm end game gear after hitting level 90+ and beating everything it's okay. Play another game, wait until another ladder, play a new character. Just don't rage on the forums that you can't "finish your character." After enjoying the game for 100+ hours.

Why should it be? The problem of many online games is they have to keep their players playing, one of the means of doing that is they have atrocious drop rate. They need an unachievable goal. It is like putting a carrot in front of the donkey to keep him moving. I wonder why killing the same monster or clearing the same map over and over again is anything fun at all. They want people doing it for months and years, well it probably isn't fun. Well, that is why you need that carrot.

but they dont have an unachievable goal, you can do all the content, beat everything with achievable gear, the challenge they set is well within anyones grasp in a semi reasonable time frame. They just have the potential to have higher numbers for those who want to keep playing, for players who choose to set themselves a less reasonable goal. This is something that some people just cant handle, that theyve been given what they need item wise to do all the content but theres bigger numbers on items that are completely unnecessary but are there for people who want to keep playing for 10,000 hours and still not have every best item in the game.

Theres no point in ever letting everyone get the best possible gear in a game where the best possible gear is a million miles beyond what you actually need to beat everything in the game. That just destroys the longevity of the game, the whole game is based around getting gear, if you have all the gear the game is essentially over... Well if youve already beaten all the content and all thats left is getting better gear why would you ever want to have THE BEST gear? At that point the game is finished, if you want the game to be over right now then just stop playing, if you want the game to continue then you dont actually want the best gear.

Personally I think they should remove mirrors from the game entirely and let original bows like glyph mark not even exist for people to buy, and if they are up for sale theyre worth 4000 exalts or something ridiculous. Perfection just shouldnt be achievable as easily as it is, not even as close to perfection as we current have from eternal crafts, it ruins the item game.





Regarding the ops comments: 3000 hours play will get you more than 350ex, you just dont know how to make proper wealth yet. Thats fine, not many people 3 months into the game understand how to make that kind of wealth, youll understand given time dont worry about it mate. the longer you play the more youll be able to value the items u find, understand what will actually sell, where you can get 20 chaos from something you thought was worth 5, how some of the items ur selling for 20 are worth 5 exalts, how you can buy gear in a temp league worth 100 exalts in standard for 10 exalts... over time you have a lot of gear, you sell the stuff you dont use, starts with selling stuff worth 10ex, then ur selling items for 20, 30, then 100, and youll see that you can make a few 100 exalts in a week or two during a busy period in the game and actually, saving for a 300ex item is well within your grasp. It just takes time, and when you get there youll look at these 300ex mirrored copies and wonder how you get the 3000ex it took to craft them in the first place, eventually even that will be understandable tho not likely achievable. You dont really want to ever achieve that because once you do the entire game is basically done, all you will have left is trading for its own sake.