Griefing

The problem isn't whether you are warned about it, but the fact that this is even in the game. What purpose does it serve other than allowing organized groups to prey on the uninformed and unprepared just for fun? None.

The problem is that this quest isn't working as GGG intended it to. It doesn't add a cut-throat feeling to the game. It's a coordinated murder, not a spontaneous melee.

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tinghshi wrote:

The problem isn't whether you are warned about it, but the fact that this is even in the game. What purpose does it serve other than allowing organized groups to prey on the uninformed and unprepared just for fun? None.

The problem is that this quest isn't working as GGG intended it to. It doesn't add a cut-throat feeling to the game. It's a coordinated murder, not a spontaneous melee.

I disagree. It is working exactly as GGG intended. It is, along with at least one other game mechanism, the very definition of what they believe 'cut throat feel' is all about. The victim had his/her throat cut, the perpetrators are happy. GGG is happy. All is working as intended.

Now the more cynical amongst us will note that this is basically saying that this game is for 'griefers' by 'griefers' - you are wrong - it is cut throat feel!

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Omnivore61 wrote:

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tinghshi wrote:

The problem isn't whether you are warned about it, but the fact that this is even in the game. What purpose does it serve other than allowing organized groups to prey on the uninformed and unprepared just for fun? None.

The problem is that this quest isn't working as GGG intended it to. It doesn't add a cut-throat feeling to the game. It's a coordinated murder, not a spontaneous melee.

I disagree. It is working exactly as GGG intended. It is, along with at least one other game mechanism, the very definition of what they believe 'cut throat feel' is all about. The victim had his/her throat cut, the perpetrators are happy. GGG is happy. All is working as intended.

Now the more cynical amongst us will note that this is basically saying that this game is for 'griefers' by 'griefers' - you are wrong - it is cut throat feel!

To an extent. Same reason we don't have open pvp in groups. Imagine if at anytime I could kill a player and take any/all loot in his inventory rather than killing the boss/mobs in an instance.

Maybe in a different league or something someday...

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Omnivore61 wrote:

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tinghshi wrote:

The problem isn't whether you are warned about it, but the fact that this is even in the game. What purpose does it serve other than allowing organized groups to prey on the uninformed and unprepared just for fun? None.

The problem is that this quest isn't working as GGG intended it to. It doesn't add a cut-throat feeling to the game. It's a coordinated murder, not a spontaneous melee.

I disagree. It is working exactly as GGG intended. It is, along with at least one other game mechanism, the very definition of what they believe 'cut throat feel' is all about. The victim had his/her throat cut, the perpetrators are happy. GGG is happy. All is working as intended.

Now the more cynical amongst us will note that this is basically saying that this game is for 'griefers' by 'griefers' - you are wrong - it is cut throat feel!

The only logical intention of GGG for this quest is that a group a player working together suddenly runs into a dispute, and kills each other over it. If this is how it actually pans out, then it's fine. But in reality, it has become: lure a noob into the quest, gang up and murder him, because we're all douchebags and we fucking can. This kind of mechanic adds nothing to the game. It's only cut-throat when everyone's fighting each other, and no one trusts one another. That's the true cut-throat spirit.

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tinghshi wrote:

The problem isn't whether you are warned about it, but the fact that this is even in the game. What purpose does it serve other than allowing organized groups to prey on the uninformed and unprepared just for fun? None.

The problem is that this quest isn't working as GGG intended it to. It doesn't add a cut-throat feeling to the game. It's a coordinated murder, not a spontaneous melee.

GGG was well aware of the consequences, it happened in CB as well.

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mibuwolf wrote:

It is not the fault of the player to want to punch in their answer to kill Oak and expect everyone else to considering that is what happens 99% of the time.

I am puzzled how this is not a failure of game design and should be rectified?

It's not the player's fault for making a thoughtless, impulsive action and failing to heed a warning of possible PVP?

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tinghshi wrote:

What purpose does it serve other than allowing organized groups to prey on the uninformed and unprepared just for fun?

It offers yet another reason to not party with people you can't trust. It strengthens party interactions when the option of betrayal is there but people don't take it. The flipside of that is sometimes you trust someone and they betray you. Hey, that happens in real life too and usually with worse consequences than a lost HC character! This game has some life lessons in it.

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tinghshi wrote:

The problem isn't whether you are warned about it, but the fact that this is even in the game. What purpose does it serve other than allowing organized groups to prey on the uninformed and unprepared just for fun? None.

The problem is that this quest isn't working as GGG intended it to. It doesn't add a cut-throat feeling to the game. It's a coordinated murder, not a spontaneous melee.

This!

We know, GGGs idea of cut-throat is somewhere from the 90's, and they need help to get on the right track sometimes.




Surprise PvP in HC is simply silly, and everyone who supports it is a retard or a wannabe griefer!

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Birdulon wrote:

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mibuwolf wrote:

It is not the fault of the player to want to punch in their answer to kill Oak and expect everyone else to considering that is what happens 99% of the time.

I am puzzled how this is not a failure of game design and should be rectified?

It's not the player's fault for making a thoughtless, impulsive action and failing to heed a warning of possible PVP?

"

tinghshi wrote:

What purpose does it serve other than allowing organized groups to prey on the uninformed and unprepared just for fun?

It offers yet another reason to not party with people you can't trust. It strengthens party interactions when the option of betrayal is there but people don't take it. The flipside of that is sometimes you trust someone and they betray you. Hey, that happens in real life too and usually with worse consequences than a lost HC character! This game has some life lessons in it.

You boldly assume, no you claim, that everyone knows of that, or expects team-PvE to suddenly switch to PvP.

You support something really stupid, what does that make you?

I get what people are saying about the fact that the quest text does, in fact, warn you. I don't usually read quest text all that closely and I noticed it.

That said, I don't personally care for the idea of non consentual PvP in a non cut-throat league. I am not a fan of FFA PvP in general, which is why I make the choice to play in leagues/servers/whatever where these types of rule sets are not in place. Not to imply that there's anything wrong with FFA PvP. It's great for folks who enjoy it, I'm just not one of them.

Ultimately, GGG will go in the direction that supports their vision for the game. I'm just not sure I agree with this particular choice, though, as it feels like trying to shoehorn some PvP into a PvE environment to me. Not to mention the way this is set up just begs for abuse by those out to try and ruin someone else's day.

It is consensual pvp though. If there were a zone that upon entering, you were told "players can attack other players in this area" and you were in a team, and you entered that area, you have consented to the possibility of attack. In this quest, you are told that to choose differently from the group will result in pvp.

I fully acknowledge that this hits new players hard, especially those who don't pay attention. But, sometimes you learn things the hard way.

Whatever GGG wants to do in regards to the quest is fine with me. I just think the argument that "You didn't know" doesn't really work.