CI leech needs fixing,

Welcome to the club of unhappy ex-CI users.



I'm concerned about even leeching enough as a melee. My main CI character (first in sig) had around 30% instant leech in 1.3 (dual claw). Now I'm going to need to totally rework him and make something completely different because what he did will not work anymore.

Rather than adding another node behind CI for a flat life leech value, I'd like to make CI (or a node behind it) grant increased life leech effectiveness.

I think a value between 75% and 100% increased life leech effectivess would be pretty fair.

A caster with LL gem and warlord's would have 7-8% leech, for example.

My current solution to my own CI builds has been to not play them, and play life based characters instead :(

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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Peterlerock wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

CI is not like other builds. Other than basic 75% all res - it has no mitigation.

Your CI has no other mitigation.

You can use all sorts of stuff.
Block, Armor (at least Granite flasks, if not passives and hybrid gear), defensive Auras like Grace or Arctic Armor, Zealot's Oath with massive Regeneration, ES recharge delay reduction, EC+IC... The list goes on and on.

Every useful build in this game atm uses several layers of defense. Otherwise you are screwed.

The stupidly easy "I have a massive ES pool and leech, I facetank anything" times are over.

I do have some like AA, 12% block and ofc flask mitigation liek everyone else. But the whole premise of CI is sponge and LL return build. Otherwise no point in playing it. The negatives are huge freeze/stun no health flask especially if you start down sizing your ES pool with hybrid gear. No point at all.

Oh and those times are not over. Attackers who make 400K+ DPS have zero issue. Problem is spells dont go that high. Like OJ above said elemental leech has always been an issue this patch jsut made it worse

The whole premise of CI is to take big hits and retreat when need be. NOT to leech it back. That's life.

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OJ8_Graz wrote:

Oh trust me, as a CI melee, I have tried many other ways to go defensive in this patch. The futile attempts of stacking other defenses hoping they'd actually work then realizing they are not even remotely as good as stacking ES and huge amounts of leech even in 2.0 is hilarious. The only thing I've adapted to is using fortify that allowed me to tank Uber Atziri this patch.

Wait, you are saying that you can tank Uber Atziri in the current state of the game, but at the same time you are saying that ES is too weak? Hmm.

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Boem wrote:

However, it needs to be in line with the new(lol old?) direction GGG envisions for the CI defense. Meaning it has to be oriented at an "attack and retreat" play-style instead of the "facetank this mofo YO \o/" we had.

Attack and retreat is unnecessary for the trash mobs and unusable in many boss rooms. It doesn't fit in the game and even if it did, people would complain that it is a boring and inefficient play style.

I can't say I agree with the OP either though. Leech for defense is too simplistic a build design imo. We need more defensive mechanics instead, that would be a lot more interesting for builds.

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Char1983 wrote:

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OJ8_Graz wrote:

Oh trust me, as a CI melee, I have tried many other ways to go defensive in this patch. The futile attempts of stacking other defenses hoping they'd actually work then realizing they are not even remotely as good as stacking ES and huge amounts of leech even in 2.0 is hilarious. The only thing I've adapted to is using fortify that allowed me to tank Uber Atziri this patch.

Wait, you are saying that you can tank Uber Atziri in the current state of the game, but at the same time you are saying that ES is too weak? Hmm.

He has all mirrored gear and 500K dps. Its a simple math function.

500K x 4% = 20,000 heal a sec.

Casters cant come close.

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Char1983 wrote:

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OJ8_Graz wrote:

Oh trust me, as a CI melee, I have tried many other ways to go defensive in this patch. The futile attempts of stacking other defenses hoping they'd actually work then realizing they are not even remotely as good as stacking ES and huge amounts of leech even in 2.0 is hilarious. The only thing I've adapted to is using fortify that allowed me to tank Uber Atziri this patch.

Wait, you are saying that you can tank Uber Atziri in the current state of the game, but at the same time you are saying that ES is too weak? Hmm.

+1


Also. CI has the luxury (one can call it that) of all utility flask setup. That with crit (lets not pretend here..) and surgeon flasks (again. Please do not deny it works that way) means pretty much 100% uptime on +10 max res and granites/jades or stuff like Rumi/lions/taste of hate. That alone is huge. Sure - life pots are great but CI's autoregen istn that bad either

Then there is a question of what is the complaint here: is CI 'the best minmaxers choice'? Probably not. Is it viable? Well.. tanking Uber is not a small feat. Does it play like life build? No. Is that a bad thing? No. It is more by design as ggg stated many times that CI should NOT be blue life.

Ci + leech (the sponge) was a joke. Trivializing everything. With inner force it meant almost 100% allres and with perma ic 100% phys reduction. Plus extreme buffer..

Im yet to try 2.0 CI myself but i already know that life leech is not going to be a stapple of my build. Jewels with faster shield recharg start on the other hand...

So much wrong you post. 1) Rumi/lions/taste of hate dont have surgeons ability. 2) CI never take aura nodes, run all the 23 purities, and inner force. Thats LL who 100% resits. 3) CI attackers can still face tank UBER and high level (over 80) map bosses if you have close to mirror gear but self caster never can just not enough deeps or leech. We dont get blood rage or much leech on gear. 4.1% is tops with a curse.

4.1% and your avg spell in a 7L PoH with GG crit gear is 100K. that's a measly 4100 life we can get back every second. Some boss hit for twice that every second.

Just want to lend my support to this thread.

I used chaos inoculation. I had to give it up after the expansion because my character kept dying. So Chaos Inoculation builds definitely took a hit.

You need really good rolls on some very nice rare armor to make it work now.

I feel it's still viable: but not until very late into your character's life. They also need to buff the incandescent heart armor. Its design strongly hints at a chaos inoculation build: yet after the expansion I have found it impossible to stay alive using it. Its Energy Shield needs to be buffed significantly: otherwise the armor really has no worthy purpose.

Hi

Screw just CI! LEECHING IN GENERAL NOW SUCKS SINCE GGG IMPLEMENTED THOSE CHANGES.

cheers

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Finkenstein wrote:

Hi

Screw just CI! LEECHING IN GENERAL NOW SUCKS SINCE GGG IMPLEMENTED THOSE CHANGES.

cheers

I have zero problems on my life builds. Because they do things like dont even get hit half the time. so 4% leech feels like 8% still (acro/phase acro ev). Or mitigate like 90% of the incoming (armor/LC/or LL running 10 aura). Or can supplement with instant life flasks if things are going downhill. All things CI cant do.