WE - NEED --> Auction House

Item flipping isn't disease - otherwise we would starve to death. It is still limited by people willing to buy. If people don't buy, you cannot flip item.

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titiAlf wrote:

If you accumulate items then price will go down because some people will actually want to sell. Fast and easy trading promotes customer and makes economy healthy. Cumbersome trading slows down economy.

Utterly and completely wrong.

I have played many mmo's and other games with active economies with different systems.

The exact opposite will happen, especially with persistent items that never get destroyed (except in HC but I see most posters here are Standard players).

The competition for the consensus great items will be such that the prices will skyrocket for all the great and BiS gear. When items are on public display for every single person to see and compete for, that is what always happens and WILL happen.

Okay so we have the not so good items and mediocre items compared to all this great gear. Will those prices go down? Yep. They will be cheap. You can buy them for cheap but you also SELL THEM for cheap.

This leads to 2 distinct economies in every game like this. The economy of the poor and the economy of the super rich who played the auction house. This happened in D3 and IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF IRL MONEY. Did irl money influence it? Ya it did. But it wasn't the driving force behind it.

A readily accessible auction with one click simple to use with 24 hour access to every single drop in the game would ruin the economy. You think the disparity of the decent items to the very wanted rare items is large now? That difference will EXPLODE and INCREASE to levels that will make the high end items unaccessible to all but the super lucky and super rich.

You may be thinking "Hey, I'm going to be able to get deals and stuff and snipe good items!" Yep. I've had friends in games with wide open auction houses do that. They dont' use bot programs but manually search the auction house all day and night long to try to get lucky snipes that beat the automated bots. Maybe they'l get lucky and snipe something. Then they realize that to upgrade their gear, the best way to play the "game" is to sit on the auction house for weeks on end and play it...instead of actually playing the game.

And that's exactly where D3 failed. It was not only more efficient, but smarter to sit on the auction house if you actually wanted those awesome upgrades, In fact, the only players with the best gear in that game were the people who purely played the auction house. Then the game attracted and kept people who didn't actually want to play the game, but play and economy simulation (and the bots....so many bots. Now the rmt sellers can not only use bots in game, they can use them on the auction house, too! Awesome!)

NO TO AUCTION HOUSE EVER

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Cyzax wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Poe.trade is essentially an auction house. It's silly to say PoE's economy would collapse under an AH because it would have collapsed already.

Poe.trade is an 'auction house' used by a small minority, and not for very many items relatively speaking. The damage from it is not big.
An in-game auction house would be used by almost everyone. The damage would be much worse.

You are twisting facts to suit your theory, not your theories to suit facts. Both pre-expansion Diablo 3 and Path of Exile have/had fully functional auction houses. Diablo 3's economy sunk like a lead balloon, Path of Exile's economy didn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that there is some reason other than auction houses as to why D3's economy failed. I'm sorry that I've pretty much proven your scapegoat of choice isn't actually at fault for what happened to D3.

I lied, I'm not sorry at all.

"

Haderach99 wrote:

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titiAlf wrote:

If you accumulate items then price will go down because some people will actually want to sell. Fast and easy trading promotes customer and makes economy healthy. Cumbersome trading slows down economy.

Utterly and completely wrong.

I have played many mmo's and other games with active economies with different systems.

The exact opposite will happen, especially with persistent items that never get destroyed (except in HC but I see most posters here are Standard players).

The competition for the consensus great items will be such that the prices will skyrocket for all the great and BiS gear. When items are on public display for every single person to see and compete for, that is what always happens and WILL happen.

Okay so we have the not so good items and mediocre items compared to all this great gear. Will those prices go down? Yep. They will be cheap. You can buy them for cheap but you also SELL THEM for cheap.

This leads to 2 distinct economies in every game like this. The economy of the poor and the economy of the super rich who played the auction house. This happened in D3 and IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF IRL MONEY. Did irl money influence it? Ya it did. But it wasn't the driving force behind it.

A readily accessible auction with one click simple to use with 24 hour access to every single drop in the game would ruin the economy. You think the disparity of the decent items to the very wanted rare items is large now? That difference will EXPLODE and INCREASE to levels that will make the high end items unaccessible to all but the super lucky and super rich.

You may be thinking "Hey, I'm going to be able to get deals and stuff and snipe good items!" Yep. I've had friends in games with wide open auction houses do that. They dont' use bot programs but manually search the auction house all day and night long to try to get lucky snipes that beat the automated bots. Maybe they'l get lucky and snipe something. Then they realize that to upgrade their gear, the best way to play the "game" is to sit on the auction house for weeks on end and play it...instead of actually playing the game.

And that's exactly where D3 failed. It was not only more efficient, but smarter to sit on the auction house if you actually wanted those awesome upgrades, In fact, the only players with the best gear in that game were the people who purely played the auction house. Then the game attracted and kept people who didn't actually want to play the game, but play and economy simulation (and the bots....so many bots. Now the rmt sellers can not only use bots in game, they can use them on the auction house, too! Awesome!)

NO TO AUCTION HOUSE EVER

Lol as if achieving endgame gear here is any different lmao. The best way to get top gear right now is trading, period. I've run hours and hours of maps while just alching them and I can guarantee you anything I've made was nothing compared to what trading brought in. So your whole analogy of ''the only players with the best gear in that game were the people who purely played the auction house'' is the same here right now except famous streamers who get free stuff from their viewers

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Poe.trade is essentially an auction house. It's silly to say PoE's economy would collapse under an AH because it would have collapsed already.

an AH indicates automation, which the current system doesn't support. Its not silly to say poe economy would suffer if automation is added, its clear that people constantly undercut eachother over the course of the leagues, adding automation increases the rate of which this occurs and floods the market with additional items.

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goetzjam wrote:

Why threads like this have to come up every week ...

Because many people do not like current state of trading.

And many people aren't even willing to use the current system, why cater the game to players that are too lazy to watch a 3 min video on how to setup a shop? Why drastically change a system that not only works, but is better in design then what GGG even intended?

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If you accumulate items then price will go down because some people will actually want to sell. Fast and easy trading promotes customer and makes economy healthy. Cumbersome trading slows down economy.

Cumbersome trading keeps people from "wasting" their time with 1 alch or small trades, artificially increasing the value of items, which helps ensure the cost factor associated with the listing is worth the effort of listing it. Anyone that thinks that the current system is bad because its "cumbersome" just has no idea on how much worst it would be if everyone can list everything and all items are technically online at once.

Imagine this, I am selling a 5 link belly on tempest right now, currently my competition is a 5 link for 5.5 ex, well I rather sell it then hold onto it as I dont have a build that will use it. So I price mine at 5.25 and I should sell. Now I play different times then the 5.5 guy and different times then other competition, but if someone REALLY wanted the money super fast they could list for 5ex and in an always online market, my item won't sell unless its A) much better or B) the cheapest one line. People already follow this mentality with poe.trade market, increasing it to be an always online market, aka AH only increases this problem further.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Cyzax wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Poe.trade is essentially an auction house. It's silly to say PoE's economy would collapse under an AH because it would have collapsed already.

Poe.trade is an 'auction house' used by a small minority, and not for very many items relatively speaking. The damage from it is not big.
An in-game auction house would be used by almost everyone. The damage would be much worse.

You are twisting facts to suit your theory, not your theories to suit facts. Both pre-expansion Diablo 3 and Path of Exile have/had fully functional auction houses. Diablo 3's economy sunk like a lead balloon, Path of Exile's economy didn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that there is some reason other than auction houses as to why D3's economy failed. I'm sorry that I've pretty much proven your scapegoat of choice isn't actually at fault for what happened to D3.

I lied, I'm not sorry at all.

Sorry, I really wish you would stop calling what poe has an AH, it isn't one by definition or any implementation of any known game, specifically in the genre.

AH indicates a few things, automation (not in poe), bids on items (hardly in poe anymore) and "always online" items, which again isn't in poe.

Poe's sink while there, is fragile enough to be hugely upset by automation, not only is an "ah" something GGG said they would never do, its something they should never do as it has key issues that can't be solved or solved easily.

Heres some examples of why the D3 AH failed:

* You could spend real money to get items.
* Good items never really dropped, even with "smart loot"
* Too convenient to buy items, made items that did drop worth practically nothing.
* Gold based economy.
* Takes 0 work to list an item and collect money later, leading to a huge influx and devaluation of gear.

An AH\BO house\whatever you want to call it still has some of the same issues, issues that cannot be resolved just because the nature of pulling the trigger and automatically getting items delivered. GGG can never and should never do any form of automated trading that would dominate the market, most trades should be from an index listed market place, where sellers have to be online to complete the transaction, this ensure that people spent an appropriate amount of time on the transaction and helps keep the system in check.

GGG should work to eliminate the dependency of third party apps, specifically ones regarding trading as its shown a couple times in the past month poe.trade has just completely stopped working for a rather "large" amount of time. As for an asynchronous form of trading to help people that play in different time zones, its something that I think is necessary, but needs to be significantly limited to ensure it doesn't just turn the system into some automated AH.

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Haderach99 wrote:

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titiAlf wrote:

If you accumulate items then price will go down because some people will actually want to sell. Fast and easy trading promotes customer and makes economy healthy. Cumbersome trading slows down economy.

Utterly and completely wrong.

...

Okay so we have the not so good items and mediocre items compared to all this great gear. Will those prices go down? Yep. They will be cheap. You can buy them for cheap but you also SELL THEM for cheap.

I don't care about overpowered items. People spam trading already. List some expensive unique cheap and you will see. Besides I am not promoting AH, I just think that 3rd party tools suck and it should be done ingame.

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titiAlf wrote:

I just think that 3rd party tools suck and it should be done ingame.

I kinda agree, but the priority isn't as high as some people are making it out to be.

Do you use any of the 3rd party programs, if so whats the "issue" for you. Everyone uses poe.trade so no real point on bringing that up, aside from what are your thoughts on it\issues.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Cyzax wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Poe.trade is essentially an auction house. It's silly to say PoE's economy would collapse under an AH because it would have collapsed already.

Poe.trade is an 'auction house' used by a small minority, and not for very many items relatively speaking. The damage from it is not big.
An in-game auction house would be used by almost everyone. The damage would be much worse.

You are twisting facts to suit your theory, not your theories to suit facts. Both pre-expansion Diablo 3 and Path of Exile have/had fully functional auction houses. Diablo 3's economy sunk like a lead balloon, Path of Exile's economy didn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that there is some reason other than auction houses as to why D3's economy failed. I'm sorry that I've pretty much proven your scapegoat of choice isn't actually at fault for what happened to D3.

I lied, I'm not sorry at all.

D3's economy fell under the weight of all the people using it without proper regulations. PoE never had that population problem and still doesn't even with poe.trade.

So a combination of total users, lack of regulations (sinks) and too free trade (ah) brought d3 to it's knees. If PoE had an ah it would presumably have a similar lack of sink, trade would be similarly free so the only thing to keep poe's economy from collapsing would be the limited number of total users which the current system does relatively good job at regulationg compared to a freer and more accessible ah.

If they introduced an ah we could be looking at item sinks and reduce drop rates to compensate for the freer more accessible trade an ah would offer. All the economic bubble would need to burst at any given time would be a large influx of people. That's a pretty precarious situation.

we need AH.

we really need it.

poe.trade suck, it's scammer.trade

and it's annoying to whisp logoff/afk ppl and waste 30min to find someone online who are not a scammer with false price.

We do have sinks in here though, aka vaal orbs that usually brick your gear (or rather most of the time)