Cleave

i have been doing some testings regarding the area of Cleave
and here is something i have noticed

TEST 1 : Cleave with no increased area effects has its normal range (devs say 20) ... kinda matches the animation

TEST 2: added the Templar area of effect nods (1x Amplify + 2x area of effect radius) = +20% total... the area is increased a certain amount (the animation doesnt change but thats not important)

TEST 3 : added the remaining area nods 6x 4% + 8% + support gem (lvl 12 = 25%) = +57%
the area doesnt increase anymore (or does a millimeter or so)

so what im saying is that adding 20% area is a massive area increase
while adding another 57% is barely noticeable

Think about a circle, when you increase the area of the circle (pi*r^2) by a percentage the radius of the circle does not increase by the same percentage but rather at a square root of the percentage increase.

This basically means that as a circle gets larger, a smaller increase in radius will yield the same percentage increase in area.

yes but the math still doesn't explain the big area increase when adding only the 1st 20%

x=area of the circle

x=π*r²

we know that the distance that unmodified cleave reaches is 20"units" (mentioned somewhere in the posts)

so x=π*20² so x=400π

now if u increase that area by 20% ... x2 = 1.2*x = 480π

now

480π = π* r2² (r2 ofc being the new distance cleave will reach)

r2= √480 = 21.9 ~ 22

so the new distance that cleave should reach is only 22 ... a sad 2 units of distance more than b4

in theory the 20% area increase should hardly be noticeable
while in practice the area is almost DOUBLED


ALSO some quick math will tell u that if u double the area of effect (100% more)
that should only increase the 20units of range of cleave to 28....
nothing points to the Massive increase in area of cleave as it is
so clearly thats not how they calculate it



PS: i havent done any math in the 4 years since i finished highschool
i stopped actualy doing math around 2nd grade of highschool
if i made some stupid mistake im sure ppl will point it out XD

radius is also "range" so don't need diameter (the 2r). the skill is a slice of a circle (aka an arc), of which circle's center point is the caster not the target (it is a melee skill not splash effect or a spell). yet we don't need the circumference either really. so get rid of pie and squared because we need range or width/length and not the length of the edge of circle.

so just "r * boost" is distance from character to furthest point (typically a target).

sorry this doesn't' explain the oddity of "+57%" being unnoticeable compared to "+20" for AoE size boost. the devs will have to see for themselves what is happening as you provided a nice amount of info i think.

well it is a question how Cleave interprets "increased area"

its either area % increase = area of the Cut-out of the circle
or its area % increase = distance cleave reaches

but neither explain the inconsistency of the area increase when adding more AoE % increase

AoE boosts work on the radius, everything is measured in radius...

Because it's a melee skill, its effective area coverage is also cut by the space your character takes up. Pulling some numbers out of my proverbial ass, suppose Cleave reached 10 units and your character had a radius of 9 units. Then the effective coverage of Cleave would be (10^2 - 9^2)pi = 19pi square units. An increase of 10% to area effect radius means Cleave has an 11 unit radius and now covers an effective (11^2 - 9^2)pi = 40pi square units, an increase of more than 100%.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

Of note; Cleave has a range of 20. The character cannot cover more than a range of 1, otherwise Unarmed wouldn't be capable of hitting anything (fairly sure Unarmed is range 2, maybe 3. One-hand weapons are 4-6).

So, you can pull all sorts of numbers out of your arse, but the space the character covers is infinitessimal, rather than 90% :)

unarmed is same distance as 1-h, as proven by the comments above and below this one https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/13788/page/6#p2793176