jewels discussion: bringing RNG and Economy to the Passive Tree
" I meant compared to "just" sub-par Gear + sub-par Gems. " if that's true, makes it somewhat more bearable. despite effectively wasting a point. it's only acceptable for me though, because other players worry about build efficiency and power levels. previously, the ability to build an efficient tree had no direct RNG in it. I think we can both agree that will no longer be the case. " fair enough. Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat Shadow: That was fun Last edited by johnKeys#6083 on Apr 18, 2015, 7:56:09 AM
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" Then I'll give you some legal tier argumentation ... as the claimant the onus is on you to provide any or all information from the IRS and US legal system outlining the ramifications (including money laundering) that may or may not have arisen from Blizzards implementation of taxable and non taxable virtual content sales,both in the real money auction house and game gold auction house. After reading that information carefully yourself (after you've found it yourself) you can then begin to decipher (all by yourself) why in part the huge knee jerk reaction (complete 180 of design actually) of Blizzard to axe all auction house style trading and tighten the noose with BOA. It all has zero to do with the balance of an ARPG. I can compare an ARPGs sate of gameplay balance with any other ARPGs state of gameplay balance .... if they're both ARPGs.Seems by your own words though that POE isn't an ARPG,and I'm fine with that. As for the last sentence... fucking seriously Xav.. that's some rocket science size thinking right there mate,you should run for a seat in politics,pointless points seem to be your strong point.Or perhaps consider a career in game development yourself. =P At any rate,I'm not sure you've realized yet that I've actually agreed with earlier points you've made about POEs design and why it will always be the way it is or just being cyclic for the sake of being cyclic. Last edited by Temper#7820 on Apr 18, 2015, 11:42:00 AM
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JohnKeys,while I tend to agree with you that it's a rather poor decision to be placing RnG into a skill/passive tree,I also agree with Xav and others that this is merely a natural progression for the game under GGG's design philosophy.
We've had this talk in the past about a few things mate and I still can't stress enough that it may be time to get off the stage and just enjoy the show from the audience.Just play what you can of it until you can no longer suffer the gameplay,mechanics and/or playstyle the game requires of you and then slip off into the sunset. As a long time supporter,forumer,player who's already let go,it pains me to see someone I've known and consider a friend suffer in hope that things may be different sometime into the future. I know in a way TheAnu gives us all some hope that the game is completely fine as is and the directions it keeps ongoing,but it's a false hope as Anu pretty much has the time,resources and willpower to overcome such hurdles. Be well my friend. |
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" And I said you dont need enigma to make a hammerdin build, as you can have a viable hammerdin without it. Enigma is just a item that will max out your character, not the thing you need to make it viable. " I am not speaking relatively i'm spiking what are the average chances of thing happening. You are using as I said extreme conditions to try define is something similar or not, and it simply doesnt work like that. You dont know anything how to compare systems and balance if you make a example that is valid for any arpg ever made. " You do not know what you are talking about. If you didnt know that is how you would get high level rune items, by farming hell cow level with 8 people party, most of time using bots. Than getting the higher runes, you would use the hack that would lag out the game and make dupes, than craft, than dupe. That is how 90% of all high runes where made in the game, so I guess you never actually played d2 in reality or known how it functioned. " Yes, fully agree dude. But some people here are so buthurt and blind that they thing this two games balance and design is similar or even same. But if you read my older posts you would see that I think/know from practice and all other arpg on the market that GGG made a mistake and they should change the game around in similar way d3 was changed (not saying remove trading, there are a lot of other way around it, but move away from the most important thing in game to be economy, ah, trading) to how d2 is, as that balance around economy doesnt bring anything good to this type of games, and only brings negative mechanics and ton of problems. " +1. You english is a lot more polished than my, so could not say it better Last edited by miljan#1261 on Apr 18, 2015, 8:57:59 AM
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" Jonny boy im afraid your last stand will be about as successful as Custer's You cant fight RNGesus hes become too powerful he is the real boss of PoE I dont see any any key!
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"Just gonna say again, trying to argue that diablo 2 does not have massive enconomy, trading and insanely rare items and rng just makes anything you say a joke. If you want to say everything should be boa like d3 that makes sense. I HEAVILY disagree, but at least its a proper opinion. "Trying to change what you said eh? You did not mention duping at all, you said farm then craft high runes. I am not a fucking mind reader. Last edited by Splift#4377 on Apr 18, 2015, 9:58:59 AM
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" It doesnt, you have proof all over the place, but you just ignore them. RNG has every arpg ever made, sameas rare itmes that are hard to get, you just post some random thing without thinking what you post. D2 never was build around economy, and blizzard never ment to balance it around it, players them self made it trade centric for late game items. You can ignore those facts. You dont even know how items got in d2 tells a lot. And read my post carefully so I don't need to spell everything. I am saying GGG should change their wrong stance as as same as d3 did, and make the game closer to what d2 was. |
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" Interesting theory but it doesn't explain why Blizzard just didn't implement PoE-style trading with no real money involved (against ToA RMT aside). I also chuckled at the 360 :3 " Yes you can, but you can't compare drop balance, it just doesn't make sense. " Not sure what the problem is with the last part of my post. You were talking about games like Titan Quest, that have a multiplay but are inherently solo offline games. It would be stupid to balance Titan Quest around trading. Thus it's not comparable to PoE or vanilla D3. Or even D2 which was a hybrid between TQ model and D3/PoE model. " I realized :) GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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@k1rage,
I've been fighting RNG Lord Of PoE for almost two and a half years. the game's absolute longest boss fight. and the amount of times I didn't get my ass kicked faster than dice can roll, can be counted with two hands. still, I'll do everything I can to stop the beast. the real beast. to make RNG take its rightful place as servant and loyal worker in a great game's infrastructure, rather than some all-powerful deity all must bow down to, with a firm grip of every single aspect of the game. @Temper, perhaps you right, old friend. but I'll go to the sidelines knowing I did absolutely everything I could, and not a moment sooner. @Splift, Diablo 2 had an Economy. Diablo 2 wasn't Economy. that's what Miljan keeps trying to tell you, and you keep trying not to listen. a game with an economy need not be a game about economy, if it is an ARPG. a game with an RNG need not be a game about RNG, unless it's Craps. and even there RNG has its limits. boundaries. specific roles to play. Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat Shadow: That was fun Last edited by johnKeys#6083 on Apr 18, 2015, 10:05:23 AM
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" I'm not feeling hostile towards you at all, but I do feel obligated to tell you that you aren't making any sense! You say that you want as much control over your character as possible, and that you don't want your character build options and decisions to be influenced by RNG. If that is the case...then why do you choose to play self found? Which is by definition allowing the computer to decide what gear you are allowed to have via its built in random number generation. The truth is that you choose to play self found because for whatever reason, you feel that adapting to the computer's RNG is more rewarding for you than gearing up in a more self deterministic manner via trade. You can take the term 'economy' and just throw it out the window, if it's such a dirty word. What we are really talking about when we say 'trade' is just player freedom to exchange items in order to combat unsatisfactory RNG. That's all it is. And yet you don't want to participate because you enjoy experiencing the RNG of self found, (for reasons I still don't understand). This is why I have to look past the superficiality of what you are saying and try to gather the meaning of it. And when I try to do that what I come up with is that you aren't concerned about the jewels in the passive tree because of "RNG invasion of a player's holy ground of freedom and decision making", because as I said, you enjoy RNG, otherwise you wouldn't play self found in the first place. As self found there are bajillions of build ideas that you are incapable of following already! Unless rng is on your side you can't even try out a shitty Bramblejack build for giggles. Let alone plan on taking a Soul Mantle or a Blood Dance. You can't PLAN on anything already AS IT IS! The introduction of jewels to the passive tree changes nothing in that regard. This is just simple straightforward logic, as I see it. And it leaves me with, once again feeling like you think you're going to get left behind and that you won't be able to follow build ideas that you find interesting because of jewels. But as I've said that is already the case due to gear as well. TL;dr there is nothing that changes due to the introduction of jewels in regards to a self found player being able to copy builds that other people who trade or have gotten really lucky RNG have made. There is no change! The only thing left is pure emotion. What shall we call this emotion response. There is only one word that comes to mind. Jealousy. You see a nice build that you want, but as self found you can't have it, so now you want to lash out against a convienent scapegoat, the jewel system, because you're afraid that your decision to play self found is going to prevent you from doing the cool stuff that someone else will probably be able to do. Jealousy. I'm sorry but that's all that's left as there is no logical reason for self found to be concern about what other players are doing unless they are of course jealous of things that think they won't be able to have. |
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