jewels discussion: bringing RNG and Economy to the Passive Tree

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Temper wrote:

Spoiler

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grepman wrote:

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Temper wrote:

Your statement is based on a false premise itself,because the only games you have to back up your claim do in fact use trade reliant systems but you ignore the slew ARPGs that released and ran for years without this reliance.The number of western ARPGs you have for reference totals around two (D3 vanilla and POE) and the opposing argument a whole slew of titles that date back to the D1 era.

why cant people admit PoE is not a single-player ARPG ?

you cant balance a 'competitive' MMARPG that is PoE not around trading. the only alternative is bound on account items.

you have to completely separate online-only ARPGs and single player variants that have optional multiplayer like diablo 1, titan quest or torchlight. these games arent really the same genre.

diablo 3, marvel heroes are online-only, they arent too 'competitive', but they have lots of BoA items in order to not balance around trade.

it's 2015, nowadays people stream in HD quality, its easier than ever get a walkthough video on youtube, have all your friends see you taking a crap on facebook, and people can organize ddos you with enough kiddie scripts and zombies

its not 1996 or even 2000, when internet was still a novelty even in america, let alone other countries. trading is so trivial it's not even funny. organized trading is easier than ever. just like you can trade stocks left and right reliably on internet, you can trade virtual items fast and easy today. it's just a fact.

GGG was faced with two ways- make items BoA and not balance around trade, or let all items be tradeable and balance around trade. they chose the latter.

third option many hamper on- no BoA items and competitive online-only ARPG with a semblance of economy, simply does not exist. you can have that option in games like grim dawn, which is single player non-comeptitive ARPG. people trade save games with thousand of items in their stash.

but PoE is not GD. its design is completely different. just because it has *parts* of classic ARPG doesnt mean its your parents' ARPG. no, its MMARPG, designed around partying and trading, with its chief playerbase being hardcore players who play 8+ hours a day

I'm totally up with the point that online only trade games get balanced around trade.Being captain obvious is being captain obvious.

My issue is with the opinion being thrown out in this thread that ALL ARPGs need trade.

You're only supporting an argument that can be replicated by the opposing side of the fence ... and neither side makes much sense to be throwing shite like *why can't you admit* and so forth.

It's been a circular argument ... of which is mostly moot and you and I are continuing the pointless debate by pretty much agreeing with each other once again adding very little value to the discussion.

While I appreciate you taking the time and effort to write your opinions and concerns,it is mostly being Captain obvious and your argument/points would be better served aimed at someone who actually holds a differing opinion than yourself.

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grepman wrote:

Spoiler

well I'm glad you agree. the problem is Im not sure others in this thread (johnkeys, miljan) agree

and if they do agree, and if we're all on the same page, then I genuinely dont understand why so many threads and posts are made on this topic

if we all agree that PoE is an MMARPG, why would you play something that you dont like and then bash it ? just because it has classic ARPG elements you liked ? but then you have to understand youre not playing a single player game. you simply do not. therefore you will have different droprates, different rules and different approaches to shit.

you dont go play quake 3 and post angry messages saying 'I love the guns, dynamics, etc but where is SINGLE PLAYER STORY MODE', do you ? doubt it. you dont buy an apple laptop only to crap on it because even though theyre both *Nix-based, it lacks some shit your custom-compiled favorite linux kernel has

you're playing their game by their rules; if you don't like trading or MM aspect, why are you (not saying YOU in particular, but in general people with similar mindset) even playing the game which is about trading and multiplayer ? and let's take it one step further, why do you feel you can post angry posts about the biggest part of the game being not to your liking, if you knew exactly what you were about to play ?

see, I dont really play MMOs. but I picked up this MMO called secret world. why ? because the story was done by Ragnar Tornqvist (the longest journey, dreamfall, dfc). I dont really fuck with MMOs, so while the story was very good, there were lots of parts of the game I hated. but NEVER did it cross my mind ONCE to go on the forums and to write angry novels as feedback why the MMO part of their game sucked, in my opinion. I also didnt ask why they balanced their game around MMO elements and not single-player elements (I played dolo, like I always do). it would be absolutely and utterly silly.

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grepman wrote:

well I'm glad you agree. the problem is Im not sure others in this thread (johnkeys, miljan) agree

and if they do agree, and if we're all on the same page, then I genuinely dont understand why so many threads and posts are made on this topic

if we all agree that PoE is an MMARPG, why would you play something that you dont like and then bash it ? just because it has classic ARPG elements you liked ? but then you have to understand youre not playing a single player game. you simply do not. therefore you will have different droprates, different rules and different approaches to shit.

you dont go play quake 3 and post angry messages saying 'I love the guns, dynamics, etc but where is SINGLE PLAYER STORY MODE', do you ? doubt it. you dont buy an apple laptop only to crap on it because even though theyre both *Nix-based, it lacks some shit your custom-compiled favorite linux kernel has

you're playing their game by their rules; if you don't like trading or MM aspect, why are you (not saying YOU in particular, but in general people with similar mindset) even playing the game which is about trading and multiplayer ? and let's take it one step further, why do you feel you can post angry posts about the biggest part of the game being not to your liking, if you knew exactly what you were about to play ?

see, I dont really play MMOs. but I picked up this MMO called secret world. why ? because the story was done by Ragnar Tornqvist (the longest journey, dreamfall, dfc). I dont really fuck with MMOs, so while the story was very good, there were lots of parts of the game I hated. but NEVER did it cross my mind ONCE to go on the forums and to write angry novels as feedback why the MMO part of their game sucked, in my opinion. I also didnt ask why they balanced their game around MMO elements and not single-player elements (I played dolo, like I always do). it would be absolutely and utterly silly.

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Perq wrote:

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grepman wrote:

Spoiler

well I'm glad you agree. the problem is Im not sure others in this thread (johnkeys, miljan) agree

and if they do agree, and if we're all on the same page, then I genuinely dont understand why so many threads and posts are made on this topic

if we all agree that PoE is an MMARPG, why would you play something that you dont like and then bash it ? just because it has classic ARPG elements you liked ? but then you have to understand youre not playing a single player game. you simply do not. therefore you will have different droprates, different rules and different approaches to shit.

you dont go play quake 3 and post angry messages saying 'I love the guns, dynamics, etc but where is SINGLE PLAYER STORY MODE', do you ? doubt it. you dont buy an apple laptop only to crap on it because even though theyre both *Nix-based, it lacks some shit your custom-compiled favorite linux kernel has

you're playing their game by their rules; if you don't like trading or MM aspect, why are you (not saying YOU in particular, but in general people with similar mindset) even playing the game which is about trading and multiplayer ? and let's take it one step further, why do you feel you can post angry posts about the biggest part of the game being not to your liking, if you knew exactly what you were about to play ?

see, I dont really play MMOs. but I picked up this MMO called secret world. why ? because the story was done by Ragnar Tornqvist (the longest journey, dreamfall, dfc). I dont really fuck with MMOs, so while the story was very good, there were lots of parts of the game I hated. but NEVER did it cross my mind ONCE to go on the forums and to write angry novels as feedback why the MMO part of their game sucked, in my opinion. I also didnt ask why they balanced their game around MMO elements and not single-player elements (I played dolo, like I always do). it would be absolutely and utterly silly.

So much this... I mean, there is nothing wrong playing self-found, but don't expect any changes to be made for self-founders... I don't know how many times I have said this. You can't make changes for self-founders and not affect the other parts of the game. And trade/economy was ALWAYS (and I mean from the VERY VERY beginning) the focus - not the solo play.

There are plenty games which can be played self-found or are a lot more single-player focused - I can name two at this moment - D3, Grim Dawn.

I really wish some people can finally understand that there won't be changes made for self-found, and so we can stop this never-ending chain of complains about RNG/RMT/self-found topics for good.

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Temper wrote:

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grepman wrote:

well I'm glad you agree. the problem is Im not sure others in this thread (johnkeys, miljan) agree

and if they do agree, and if we're all on the same page, then I genuinely dont understand why so many threads and posts are made on this topic

if we all agree that PoE is an MMARPG, why would you play something that you dont like and then bash it ? just because it has classic ARPG elements you liked ? but then you have to understand youre not playing a single player game. you simply do not. therefore you will have different droprates, different rules and different approaches to shit.

you dont go play quake 3 and post angry messages saying 'I love the guns, dynamics, etc but where is SINGLE PLAYER STORY MODE', do you ? doubt it. you dont buy an apple laptop only to crap on it because even though theyre both *Nix-based, it lacks some shit your custom-compiled favorite linux kernel has

you're playing their game by their rules; if you don't like trading or MM aspect, why are you (not saying YOU in particular, but in general people with similar mindset) even playing the game which is about trading and multiplayer ? and let's take it one step further, why do you feel you can post angry posts about the biggest part of the game being not to your liking, if you knew exactly what you were about to play ?

see, I dont really play MMOs. but I picked up this MMO called secret world. why ? because the story was done by Ragnar Tornqvist (the longest journey, dreamfall, dfc). I dont really fuck with MMOs, so while the story was very good, there were lots of parts of the game I hated. but NEVER did it cross my mind ONCE to go on the forums and to write angry novels as feedback why the MMO part of their game sucked, in my opinion. I also didnt ask why they balanced their game around MMO elements and not single-player elements (I played dolo, like I always do). it would be absolutely and utterly silly.

The focus of the topic was manually shifted from whether or not the decision to add RnG and economic elements to game mechanics that previously,for the most part were not directly reliant on both to be 100% utilized is a solid decision.

To

Whether or not games and more specifically ARPGs are better served being balanced and designed around an economy as a whole rather than self serving gameplay.

With that out the way,I personally believe the addition of economy into the passive tree was always on the cards.

I'm not enamoured with the decision,but without having first hand experience with the changes and how they interact with the ARPG element of the game,am reluctant to even comment any other way besides .... I prefer having a solid,set in stone foundation of skills/passives available for theory crafting builds without having to speculate with skills/passives I don't have or will not have without the interaction of an economy.

I'm inclined to sit in Boems camp at present because "for and against" at this stage is pretty much pointless,it's coming whether a player wants it or not and making suggestions with it's implementation in mind isn't possible currently as we haven't sampled the implementation of it yet.

I'm not gonna argue/discuss to anything else in your post because I don't feel it's relevant to what the focus of the discussion should be and may be the case in some instances that I actually agree,but agreeing to something I don't feel warrants discussion on the subject focus.

Somewhere in this thread I wrote "Some will love it,some will hate it and some will be indifferent,but one thing for sure is,everyone will have to deal with it in their own way."

And that pretty much sums it up for me. lol

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Q: NursewithoutWound: Is there going to be very rare jewels, rare as mirror?
A: Chris: Nurse: some are very rare but not as rare as a mirror
A: Chris: there are 100+ mods that can occur on rare jewels

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Xavderion wrote:

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Q: NursewithoutWound: Is there going to be very rare jewels, rare as mirror?
A: Chris: Nurse: some are very rare but not as rare as a mirror
A: Chris: there are 100+ mods that can occur on rare jewels

r e k t
e
k
t

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k1rage wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

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Q: NursewithoutWound: Is there going to be very rare jewels, rare as mirror?
A: Chris: Nurse: some are very rare but not as rare as a mirror
A: Chris: there are 100+ mods that can occur on rare jewels

r e k t
e
k
t

Chris Wilson uses RNG attack on Johnkeys

Its super effective!

JohnKeys fainted...