jewels discussion: bringing RNG and Economy to the Passive Tree

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khemintiri wrote:

And you dont have to allocate those nodes until you get a jewel that works for you , and you can craft them with drops you have ingame .

your opinion is not taking anything I wrote in this thread, into account.

if I have to "not allocate nodes until I get a Jewel" - that right there, is a change for the worse.
if I have to avoid a path in the tree that has a Jewel Slot in it, because I have no suitable Jewels - that right there, is limiting or even outright eliminating an option I had, before RNG got shoved into the tree.

I know you are looking at this from the trader's point of view, and saying "wow I'll have so many options now, and I can get around the RNG part by trading, as always", but please try to put yourself in my shoes and look at the other side of this coin.
when you do, your initial response should be "yeah, if I was playing SF and avoiding trade as much as possible, the way John and many others do, RNG in the Passive Tree would be a real 'oh shit' moment for me".

well RNG in the Passive Tree + the existing state of RNG everywhere else, an existing state where you already are punished for not trading, and are about to be hit with the ultimate hammer on the head as RNG makes its way into your "last bastion" of deterministic choice - may just be the ultimate breaking point for me.
which is exactly why I'm putting so much effort into this thread. it's my "last stand" of sorts.

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johnKeys wrote:

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khemintiri wrote:

And you dont have to allocate those nodes until you get a jewel that works for you , and you can craft them with drops you have ingame .

your opinion is not taking anything I wrote in this thread, into account.

if I have to "not allocate nodes until I get a Jewel" - that right there, is a change for the worse.
if I have to avoid a path in the tree that has a Jewel Slot in it, because I have no suitable Jewels - that right there, is limiting or even outright eliminating an option I had, before RNG got shoved into the tree.

I know you are looking at this from the trader's point of view, and saying "wow I'll have so many options now, and I can get around the RNG part by trading, as always", but please try to put yourself in my shoes and look at the other side of this coin.
when you do, your initial response should be "yeah, if I was playing SF and avoiding trade as much as possible, the way John and many others do, RNG in the Passive Tree would be a real 'oh shit' moment for me".

let me give you a link to help you out .

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Currency

It will tell you how to use the brown items that drop , will make it a bit easier for you.

And stop with your definitives and telling me what I do , Cause YOU dont know shit about what i think, how do YOU KNOW THIS ? .

There has always been optimal and suboptimal routes for your build in the tree , and if you take a good look at the videos of it , most routes are not any necessity but a bit of the path aswell .

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khemintiri wrote:

let me give you a link to help you out .

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Currency
It will tell you how to use the brown items that drop , will make it a bit easier for you.

forget everything I said. don't know why I wasted my time with you.
unless you really aren't capable of grasping just how insulting it is, for someone who just wrote a serious post just for you, to explain - and repeat - his position, to get this as a response.

have a good day.

P.S: if you actually showed some fucking respect to other people's effort, I'd tell you optimal and sub-optimal routes is something I already addressed in this thread, saying I want the freedom to choose even a sub-optimal route if I feel like it.
but I'm not going to bother.

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johnKeys wrote:

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khemintiri wrote:

let me give you a link to help you out .

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Currency
It will tell you how to use the brown items that drop , will make it a bit easier for you.

forget everything I said. don't know why I wasted my time with you.
unless you really aren't capable of grasping just how insulting it is, for someone who just wrote a serious post just for you, to explain - and repeat - his position, to get this as a response.

have a good day.

Its insulting assuming what other people think sir , and when you are serious , you are just rude to other people , but seriously check out the link , it might help you with the jewels

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khemintiri wrote:

Its insulting assuming what other people think sir

was I wrong to assume you see Jewels as a cool addition to the game, and ignore the RNG aspect just because there is no RNG aspect when you can trade for precisely the one you need?
or did you somehow see that as "rude" of me to assume that?

was it too much for me to ask of you, to look at this from a non-trader's point of view, and see what I see?

I know the Wiki. hell I helped in writing some of its topics.
you're not "helping". you are insulting me for trying to make you understand my claims and opinions, even if you disagree with them.

the discussion is now pointless.

A self-found perspective? A self-found perspective is worth absolutely nothing, GGG don't care about self-found, they don't support self-found, they don't design anything with self-found in mind, and so self-found is nothing more than people putting arbitrary restrictions on themselves to try and make the game something it's not, it's like playing CSGO and only using a knife and then complaining to valve about how they don't support knife only gameplay when they release a new gun or something.

You can't complain when GGG does something to improve their game that hurts your made up game, that's not how it works.

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johnKeys wrote:

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khemintiri wrote:

Its insulting assuming what other people think sir

was I wrong to assume you see Jewels as a cool addition to the game, and ignore the RNG aspect just because there is no RNG aspect when you can trade for precisely the one you need?
or did you somehow see that as "rude" of me to assume that?

was it too much for me to ask of you, to look at this from a non-trader's point of view, and see what I see?

I know the Wiki. hell I helped in writing some of its topics.
you're not "helping". you are insulting me for trying to make you understand my claims and opinions, even if you disagree with them.

the discussion is now pointless.

Stop using trader as a derogatery term to insult me without using harsher words , im not stupid and yes that is a rude thing to do.

We will most probably get gems from quests , and you can get alterations from killing stuff in any zone after twilight strand (even there if you really just want to farm hillock), so your claims are just rabblerazing and doomsaying , and have no real basis except in your own mind.

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oBLACKIECHANo wrote:

A self-found perspective? A self-found perspective is worth absolutely nothing, GGG don't care about self-found, they don't support self-found, they don't design anything with self-found in mind, and so self-found is nothing more than people putting arbitrary restrictions on themselves to try and make the game something it's not, it's like playing CSGO and only using a knife and then complaining to valve about how they don't support knife only gameplay when they release a new gun or something.

You can't complain when GGG does something to improve their game that hurts your made up game, that's not how it works.

While the first half of your post certainly isn't true (else we wouldn't have had super increased map drops, master crafting etc), the second half is true.

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khemintiri wrote:

Stop using trader as a derogatery term to insult me without using harsher words , im not stupid and yes that is a rude thing to do.

I'm not. not here at least. and I have a post just 1 page ago, implying I have no problem with people trading, but at the same time I do not enjoy trading in the slightest, and do not want to be forced into trading by GGG's habit of just throwing RNG at everything.
trade is a way to nullify the whims of RNG. that is an undeniable fact.
and I hope now you realise when putting RNG into a Passive Tree that previously had none, I have a pretty strong case to claim it is the ultimate form of punishing me for not trading.

as for the second part of your post, I'll repeat myself for the last time: you won't have all Jewels as quest rewards. you will have modifiers and modifier-rarity tiers, which already do a heck of a job making a SF player's gear-life miserable, on Jewels too.
because Jewels are gear, and gear is either RNG or trade, with a tiny bit of deterministic Master-Crafting sprinkled on top, which at its higher levels requires trade too (unless you know of some secret recipe for Divine and Exalted Orbs I don't).

please do not make me repeat myself.
read my posts in this thread, or the OP and the first ones at least. I think it's not too much to ask.

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Temper wrote:

Because it's a rather long winded legal story that I'd rather not spend a novel's worth of words trying to explain or describe and is best left to the individuals capable powers of internet research before making claims of why any particular system in a video game exists.

The information is publicly available and old news.

Pretty bad cop out :P 'Just google it!' is tumblr-tier argumentation.

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Temper wrote:

How many ARPGs don't have a trade window enabled ? .... How many ARPGS don't allow free trade ? 1-2 ?

The comparison is fair enough at a basic level,they're all supposed to be ARPGs no ? But I digress,I've stated somewhere else in this thread that I'm aware of the fact POE is designed from the ground up to bolster the economy,which means it will always be balanced in all aspects to protect that economy.

My issue is with certain posters *projecting* their opinion as fact that ARPGs with trade enabled MUST be balanced around trade.Where the actual fact is only ARPGS designed around trade and an economy require balancing around trade and the economy.

Just a heads up.Some of these Offline games as you call them had a rather large online only communities and some had dedicated servers.There are hardcore multiplayer clans still active that pre-date any from the D2 era and were so large that one developer decided it was worth running a dedicated server for one particular clan alone .

I'll not be coy,I find many of the so called *hardcore* D2 fans/pros to be obnoxious prats who's ARPG career mostly resides in the D2 trade bubble and little else.

=P

You still can't compare offline games with optional, very limited multiplayer possibilities to online-only MMO-style games. No dev in his right mind would balance a mostly offline game around trading with other players.