jewels discussion: bringing RNG and Economy to the Passive Tree

When most ppl think d2 they think of things like enigma hammerdin, the point where economy got strong was also when d2 was at its most popular.

And once again saying you could mf with high mf in d2 for a whole day and not find anything is not extreme at all.

the drop rates of high runes make exalts seem easy to find.

"

Splift wrote:

When most ppl think d2 they think of things like enigma hammerdin, the point where economy got strong was also when d2 was at its most popular.

And once again saying you could mf with high mf in d2 for a whole day and not find anything is not extreme at all.

the drop rates of high runes make exalts seem easy to find.

What most people think d2 they think about a lot of things. Also you dont need enigma for hammerdin if you didnt know as it is very hard to get it without dupes.

It is extreme, as it never happened to me until you already had high level set items or uniques.

You do not find high level runes, you farm for them and than craft them. Thing you could never do with exalts. And you know, things like skills are not items, as they didnt make the game around trading, items dont need sockets or link so you can use gems, as they didnt want to limit character customization because of currency sink and trading, and the fact as i said the game was never designed or balanced around trading as PoE is.

"

Xavderion wrote:

"

miljan wrote:

"

Xavderion wrote:

Uh okay you're just repeating what you said before while ignoring what I said. They're not the same because see my post. PoE is not worse because see my post. Try again lel.

The thing is you didnt said anything different. Except that d3 has better and faster trading so you dont need to waste time on it like in PoE (witch is a negative thing for PoE). Does d3 have one item or 10 items, its same shit if both of them cant drop so you need to trade, so it doesnt change anything.

Zimbabwe-tier inflation vs fairly stable economy. How is the first better just because it's more convenient?

I figure with the currency system in poe and better implementation the auction house from d3 could work amazing here. The inflation was the end product of designing the game 100% around items, balancing those items around trading and finally balancing trading around rmt's.

"

miljan wrote:

Also you dont need enigma for hammerdin if you didnt know as it is very hard to get it without dupes.

I already said enigma hammerdin could never be self found so obviously i was implying it there.

"

miljan wrote:

It is extreme, as it never happened to me until you already had high level set items or uniques.

In other words you are speaking relatively. If you find a lidless eye or peasants crown you are calling that good because its good for you but its trash that people throw on the ground for free. Poe is the same like this. Good items (valuable i mean) are not easy to get.

"

miljan wrote:

You do not find high level runes, you farm for them and than craft them.

Haha, do you knwo how many low runes it takes to craft a high rune? Sorry you do not know what you are talking about. Unless once again you mean runes that are high for you but not to anyone else like pul or um, which once again is arguably the same in poe (not valuable things= easy to get).

builds have always been subject to rng and the economy because of the skill gem system. The library quest smoothed out some of the problems. As well as the +20 quality recipe. Though vaals still retain that upper echelon of rng and economy in the skill gem system.

This system does bring more rng than the skill gems and will sink a larger variety of currency, It is a valid concern\thought, but builds have always relied on some rng and economy, much less so now than earlier patches. I think that GGG has options similar to how they smoothed the gem rng if the economy starts running away on this.

"

Splift wrote:

Haha, do you knwo how many low runes it takes to craft a high rune? Sorry you do not know what you are talking about. Unless once again you mean runes that are high for you but not to anyone else like pul or um, which once again is arguably the same in poe (not valuable things= easy to get).

All i could think of was how many el's are in a zod. (14 trillion) cubing HRs is just insane

WoW this turned into an argument about D2 lol

"

miljan wrote:

I mean saying PoE a game where devs think the economy is the most important part of the game, and is build from ground up is same as d2 (that didnt have a economy to begin with, until part of community made it) is extremely naive and wrong.

d2 was made to be a single player game with good multiplayer, I bet even blizzard did not expect the multiplayer taking off as much as it did when it did. it was quite a phenomenon.

poe was designed in mind to be a competitive, online-only game with emphasis on partying, economy and ladders, and content updates every several months. it is an ARPG/MMO hybrid just like marvel heroes. diablo 1 didnt even have ladders. d2 introduced ladders, and it wasnt even at launch.

AWSOME AND EVEN MORE AWSOME
this is totaly insane posibilitys endless hopeing the jewels wont be to expensive tho i can get up to 30 c to lete game so yea if some of this babys go way over ex it mighy get nasty

"

Xavderion wrote:

"

miljan wrote:

No you dont need to balance around trading if you have trading in the game.

I snipped this sentence because your entire argument is based on this utterly false premise and thus falls flat. Even Blizzard realized this and removed trading completely when they decided to balance around self-found play. You can't have trade without a balance around trade, period.

Blizzards reasons for using BOA go far beyond balance ...... you may want to research on the legal ramifications that played a huge part in the sweeping changes to their design philosophy.

It's entirely possible and proven by many ARPGs that not balancing the whole game around trade works just fine.

However,seeing as POE is designed from it's foundation up on a trade or sink philosophy,which the developers have no intention of changing,it is correct that balancing of the game for anything other than the economy will not and likely cannot happen in POE.

Your statement is based on a false premise itself,because the only games you have to back up your claim do in fact use trade reliant systems but you ignore the slew ARPGs that released and ran for years without this reliance.The number of western ARPGs you have for reference totals around two (D3 vanilla and POE) and the opposing argument a whole slew of titles that date back to the D1 era.