Death Penalty Adjustment Discussion
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I died twice 2 days ago on my Lvl. 96 exile.
Crematorium Boss flame rain mini-stunned me to death (my bad) and the other was Village Ruin Boss Gnar (not Stonebeak for once lol): first time I'd ever been hit by Gnar as usually he attacks my totems... didn't realise he bleeds ya and on vulnerability + boss dmg map 1-2 steps away I RIPPED (again my bad). I managed to grind my exp back and break even or slightly positive that day. Those deaths cost me chisels/maps and most importantly exp - but I am happy they did cost me. Getting to Lvl. 100 should be a challenge, should be a grind, should be expensive. It gives more worth to being higher level - not bragging rights... I don't care about that... but I do care about the challenge of it. It's not attainable to most people due to difficulty, managing maps properly, time taken/time constraints... it's a small pool of players who have figured it out or done the research, set themselves the goal and grinded to obtain it. I like that about the exp penalty. Players can't just be wreckless and roll silly map mods that squish their build, we have to be cautious and defensive minded around new Bosses or research them beforehand, we know the hardship and expense it takes to maintain maps... all higher level exiles have faced this challenge, have developed a strategy to overcome it after research and experience, and deserve the accomplished feeling of achieving their goal of maximum level. Of course I'm only 96... maybe a few RIPs at 99 will make me kung fu kick my computer screen - but I like to think I'll maintain my composure, accept the deaths, learn and try to not die like that in the future. "The key to winning any fight is simply staying alive." Last edited by WARPAINTER#1787 on Nov 25, 2015, 11:05:07 PM
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Your deaths were both your fault. I am fine with XP penalty if it is my fault. The problem is, more often than not, it is not. And that is when the XP penalty is just plain crap.
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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Ive been playing a game called Grim Dawn the past little bit. That game has an Exp Pen on death as well. And when the higher Difficulties are added the exp pen will also increase. But even in Normal Difficulty you lose Exp for a death. Now whats interesting as well as different about the way they handle their Exp Pen is that when you die.. a Cross is placed in the spot you die at. And then you are revived in town much like POE. Then when you go back to the place you died at you retrieve the Cross where you last died and recoup some of the exp you had lost from the death. Not ALL of the exp but most of it.
Now this could be something GGG could consider with the Exp Pen in POE as well. That way if you die a on a really hard boss encounter... Well is recouping some of that lost exp worth chancing another Death with ANOTHER pen AND losing the exp you tried to retrieve? I mean it actually works well in that game. It serves the same purpose the Exp Pen serves in POE... To stop players from just zerging the content freely with no drawbacks. All while making you rethink you strategy and build if you start to run into these deaths. I just thought it was an interesting way to handle an Exp Pen.. It does it job without being as brutally punishing as POE's Exp Pen. There is a fine line between Consideration and Hesitation. The former is Wisdom, the latter is Fear. Last edited by Demonoz#1375 on Nov 26, 2015, 12:16:15 AM
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" Here's some hard evidence that this is true: The ladder data for Standard League where all sc/hc(rip) characters are immortalized: http://api.exiletools.com/ladder?league=standard&status=1 I'll just quote the important parts: " The average Level of the Top 1000 to 5000 players in Standard is only level 95! And this is in standard where all as in all characters from all past softcore temp leagues are dumped to.
The full result (in case Pete's API get offline or something) - Standard
{ "standard" : { "uniqueCharacters" : "15000", "classCount" : { "Scion" : "2684", "Marauder" : "2557", "Duelist" : "895", "Shadow" : "1363", "Witch" : "3617", "Ranger" : "2950", "Templar" : "934" }, "rankedCharacters" : "15000", "uniqueAccounts" : "10345", "averageLevel" : { "Top100" : "100.0000", "1001-5000" : "95.4518", "101-1000" : "99.2078" }, "Top10" : { "6" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Ranger", "Name" : "Sliqs" }, "3" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Witch", "Name" : "Lighterio" }, "7" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Templar", "Name" : "xVisco" }, "9" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Scion", "Name" : "DestroyEverything" }, "2" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Witch", "Name" : "Dear_Santa_UA" }, "8" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Marauder", "Name" : "xdukanx" }, "1" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Scion", "Name" : "TaylorSwiftVEVO" }, "4" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Ranger", "Name" : "_plackowsky_" }, "10" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Ranger", "Name" : "SasusiaTesusia" }, "5" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Ranger", "Name" : "iamgodyi" } }, "toGetOnLadder" : { "level" : "92", "xp" : "2325712498" }, "aliveCharacters" : "15000", "top100classCount" : { "Scion" : "19", "Marauder" : "15", "Duelist" : "4", "Shadow" : "7", "Witch" : "28", "Ranger" : "21", "Templar" : "6" }, "ladderPlayersOnlineNow" : "246", "deadCharacters" : "0" } } Here's the same data for Hardcore league: http://api.exiletools.com/ladder?league=hardcore&status=1 "
Full data for Hardcore
{ "hardcore" : { "uniqueCharacters" : "14905", "classCount" : { "Scion" : "2413", "Marauder" : "3331", "Duelist" : "836", "Shadow" : "1232", "Witch" : "3360", "Ranger" : "2240", "Templar" : "1588" }, "rankedCharacters" : "15000", "uniqueAccounts" : "8478", "averageLevel" : { "Top100" : "99.9100", "1001-5000" : "91.1843", "101-1000" : "95.0667" }, "Top10" : { "6" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Scion", "Name" : "exInfinite" }, "3" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Scion", "Name" : "AdrianDualWieldInc" }, "7" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Marauder", "Name" : "HoGji" }, "9" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Scion", "Name" : "FunDetectedNerfIncoming" }, "2" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Ranger", "Name" : "Techs___" }, "8" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Marauder", "Name" : "Rexor_" }, "1" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Scion", "Name" : "Zuki_thisTime_Different" }, "4" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Marauder", "Name" : "Rilkeisrilke" }, "10" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Shadow", "Name" : "SirBaker" }, "5" : { "Level" : "100", "Class" : "Ranger", "Name" : "Karkinikon" } }, "toGetOnLadder" : { "level" : "86", "xp" : "1430993752" }, "aliveCharacters" : "11682", "top100classCount" : { "Scion" : "23", "Marauder" : "25", "Duelist" : "6", "Shadow" : "8", "Witch" : "21", "Ranger" : "9", "Templar" : "8" }, "ladderPlayersOnlineNow" : "27", "deadCharacters" : "3318" } } Note that this data was taken at the time I posted this: Nov 26, 2:20pm UTC+8 The average Level of the Top 1000 to 5000 players in Hardcore is only level 91! And this is in standard where all as in all characters from all past hardcore temp leagues are dumped to. I generally agree to the OP that the exp penalty is probably just discouraging build creativity like that build of the week that uses Cast On Death which Chris really liked (as he mentioned in State of exile podcast). The only important thing now is to balance the incentive to not die in such a way that we all try hard not to die. I have a hunch that this will really make softcore really fun, as fun as Hardcore (but viable for us with bad ping). (Btw this suggestion is genius). I should probably make a separate post about this huh? The data is very interesting. Note that data other leagues like warbands is also available, see http://api.exiletools.com/ladder. PoE-TradeMacro - https://github.com/PoE-TradeMacro/POE-TradeMacro/
ExileTrade - http://exiletrade.github.io/ |
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" This, pretty much. Over 90% of my deaths since 92 are due to lag, dc or that random crash (last one can't be helped I suppose). I keep thinking about respeccing a faceroll build (that can't even run half of the maps I roll atm) and run in rota parties only, since that's the monkey's way to get to 100. In the end I know I won't stoop that low though. Taking a break until 2.1... I have a nice 20% exp left from which to continue the grind once I've recharged the batteries. [s]only mindless sheep think labyrinth is OK to have in PoE.[/s]
okay nevermind labyrinth, fix dx9 blackscreen instead... |
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" After desync departure, this is simply not true anymore I guess it's easier to blame disconnects/lag/crashes/other instead of our own errors :) |
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" 3/4 of the time I have died there was literally nothing I could have done to prevent it. The difficulty level especially on higher maps goes from cake to instant death with very little in between. When bosses/chests freeze you plus stun plus spawn a rogue that gets 3 seconds to wail on you before you can even move, what kind of BS is that to cost you hours and hours of exp loss? How about the map bosses where you clear the entire upper levels easy peasy and then get one shotted the second you portal into the lair area... no time to throw down any totems, no time to do any damage, just instantly dead and swarmed with no way to re-enter the zone without dying yet again. |
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" Not being able to deal with bosses is due to lack of knowledge and/or bad build. This can very much be prevented. Especially by skipping some of the bosses [rant]like the fucking cockroach in Phantasmagoria. How is it that my half-mf build can clear a 140%+ courtyard, bosses included, without dying, but can't survive a goddamn white 71 boss without insanely great placement and corner abuse?[/rant]. Opening chests and not dying is literally a player problem now. I get lag/freeze every time I open a box, but I never die to them anymore. A death that you "can't do anything about" goes like this, for future reference: Get a Zana, Zana spawns a 76 Temple with Beyond/Seawitches, you reach the map boss, run to her, drop totems near her and the massive blue Seawitch pack that there is and... ...the game crashes. Then you silently say "fuck." to your screen, knowing that the hope of not having lost that 10% is meager at best, yet still banking on it, while waiting for the game to relaunch and unveil the terrible truth that you deep inside knew already. [s]only mindless sheep think labyrinth is OK to have in PoE.[/s]
okay nevermind labyrinth, fix dx9 blackscreen instead... |
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BUMP I AGREE AND IVE PLAYED ALL THESE GAMES FOR 20 YEARS
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I'm tired of playing for nothing because i die in a perandus pack making everything freeze (and not the statut ailment) seriously do something
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