Death Penalty Adjustment Discussion

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

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greyspear wrote:

So unless it is seriously broken should it not change

The thing is, the penalty IS fundamentally broken.
It fails to penalize anyone that doesn't care about experience.
It fails to penalize right after a level up.
It fails to penalize level 100 characters.
It pushes players to avoid any interesting challenging content.
It falls incredibly hard on players that would never be competitive anyways, while being just a minor setback for players that are highly invested in the competition to level 100.

Now, if you think that death penalty is comparable to a trademark (like Ferrari's color), then why is it that PoE has the exact same as Diablo II, rather than its own?

Question practically answers itself. "Clone" is the usual term for a reason.

QueQue is correct. I've been saying for a while that death penalty should have been:
* items have some arbitrary amount of durability
* items lose x% durability on death; never lose for any other reason
* absolutely no way to repair durability; replacement is only option
* tune the x% until the appropriate softcore feeling is achieved (could be a very low value of x%)
* absolutely zero XP loss on death

That would be a penalty everyone cares about (unless running "disposable" budget gear, but that's its own playstyle) and it is by far the most economic death penalty ever (a gear sink which actually works + differing item valuations based on durability remaining) so it would have fit right in.

LOL, complaining about the 10% death penalty when mapping above 92+ is entirely based on map pool and currency.

If you have the map pool and currency you can get to 100 easy, part of that being easy is simply not doing maps you know youre going to die in.

They nerfed it from 15% to 10% already. Quit with the complaining its pathetic. Instead of saying its some flawed aspect of the game just accept it for what it is, a challenge.

Dying endgame means one of three things.

1- Your build sucks.

2- Your gear sucks.

3- You suck.

The same people every new league playing for less than 50 hours play time and hitting 100 every league, and that just keeps getting faster. We had level 100 in like 6 days this league, soo yeah. Theres absolutely no reason to remove exp penalty in permanent league with statistics like this, especially in a league where youre going to have deep pockets to invest in mapping.

Penalty would be perfectly fine if the "difficulty" was consistent, but with all the random oneshots and similar stuff, it can get pretty aggravating.

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Raudram wrote:

Penalty would be perfectly fine if the "difficulty" was consistent, but with all the random oneshots and similar stuff, it can get pretty aggravating.

or death from reflect from 2 screens away.

i think they ought to limit projectile range to just past visible range (so yeah it would have to be dynamic. Problems?)

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

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greyspear wrote:

So unless it is seriously broken should it not change

The thing is, the penalty IS fundamentally broken.
It fails to penalize anyone that doesn't care about experience.
It fails to penalize right after a level up.
It fails to penalize level 100 characters.
It pushes players to avoid any interesting challenging content.
It falls incredibly hard on players that would never be competitive anyways, while being just a minor setback for players that are highly invested in the competition to level 100.

Now, if you think that death penalty is comparable to a trademark (like Ferrari's color), then why is it that PoE has the exact same as Diablo II, rather than its own?

Because if you don't care about leveling your character then you've already admitted that the death penalty is good enough to deter you from caring so much about progression.


The logic that people wait until they level up until they do some random off the wall shit is interesting, but that logic is flawed when you consider the fact after a few instances of maps after you level you already put forth more effort into not wanting to die then carrying about a death.


Level 100 is max level, what are you going to subtract from that, do you think that level 100 characters got there without at least trying not to die, its annoying to lose map portals, recast auras, ect ect to think that level 100 characters just go on a suicide run or something like you are implying is just asinine.

Avoid, no it punishes players for failing to meet the challenge, if they pussy foot around the game and get to 100 or level without challenge, whats the purpose of their build anyway then?

You last point is just wrong, if casual players don't care about leveling to 100, then they damn well dont care about anything past 85 then do they? You know where the penalty start to be less forgiving.



How is it the same as D2's penalty exactly, I can recall playing D2 but I dont recall losing anything but gold.

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or death from reflect from 2 screens away.

If you can die to reflect from 2 screens away, then you can die to reflect in less then a screen away, which means something is fundamentally wrong with your build. Please tell me how you live in cases of reflect in which you can "prepare for" but ones you can't with your specific build, because based on just the very limited stuff you've said here either you don't live to reflect regardless or you do but have to prepare for it in ways that aren't "reasonable"

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Penalty would be perfectly fine if the "difficulty" was consistent, but with all the random oneshots and similar stuff, it can get pretty aggravating.

This point is null and void considering people get to 100 in HC, not only that many many people get to that in SC.

Exp penalty isnt the problem below level 90.

With the availability of tier 11 maps now.
It isnt even a problem for level 91-93.

I died once on my lvl 91 doing village ruin boss, I get back 20% by joining a few map team. So that day I am actually net 10% exp gain.

PS: that damn village ruin dog and his bleeding need a nerf. I use my bleeding potion b4 dying, but that 200-300ms ping network latency from server didnt get the heal command wtf. :S

How about the 10% xp threshold that is added to your xp bar on death?

I saw this idea couple posts ago and it seems totally fair:
-your xp can't drop below its value
-you have to xp 10% without dying to be able to get xp again

This causes death penalty to be fairly punishing, as people who don't die will xp way faster and it allows you to try out a map/boss without waiting to lvl up so you don't lose any xp (which makes current death penalty not working in this case)

Death you should lose a level and a skill point. Takes you right to your tree after death and says remove one. 10% is nothing. Almost like not having one but not quite.

You can play glass cannon (or MFer)
You can build balance and accept a few deaths
You can build a HC super tank and level pretty effortlessly.

It's very diverse and 10% penalty enables that.

With no penalty everyone would just opt for #1. I wouldnt even take a life node.

All-DPS-all-the-time

Edit not to mention if they change it now all those guys who made 100 achievement is watered down. All around terrible idea.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Barivius wrote:

The fact that someone could make it to 100 zerging tough bosses and using 6 portals makes me ill. We'd be playing maps with more quantity since the only measure of failure is if you die > 6 times.

Why should you care how other people play the game? What is important is that people play the game and have fun. Everyone doesn't have to love the same thing about this great game. Different people should be able to have fun in their own way. The more people that have fun the more support the game will have and so it is best for you as well as GGG to have a large base of people playing and having fun even if not everyone enjoys the game in the same way.

See thats a misconception, GGG should not balance the game around casual players that would appreciate no death penalty (although every arpg i know has one).

GGG should never balance the game around making it more "fun" by not having a penalty so they are more likely to support the game financially, that is what we would call a sellout.

Chris just said the XP penalty was fine, so please for the love of God wait until after act 4 before you try to make arguments that filled that thread with 69+ pages.

This Post reminds at me from D3 when a softcore players did argue about death penalty and repeatly dying start it to cost as ''revive'' cooldown.. and they could not bypass a grifts by zerking trough.
Anyway i agree with you totally even i keep myself just average player in a gaming communities either is it mmorpg,arpg,fps etc..
A games should not ''done'' or balance by average casuals. You can see where they are heading .. ''downfall''.. like WoW. Even a expansions would othrwise be great but a gameplay did sucks heavily.