Death Penalty Adjustment Discussion

Just putting it out there, that if you are playing on a terrible connection, you are going to have issues, regardless of what system PoE uses (at least if they don't want people to cheat)

The biggest issue with predictive, is that it was a sync system that basically screwed everyone over, at the cost of attempting to make it playable for everyone. Due to clients being able to desync at any theoritical possible time (regardless of connection), all predictive did was make it arguably slightly better to play if you had a really bad connection, at the cost of enjoyment for everyone else who has a good connection.

It also skewed gameplay in a terrible away. Certain playstyles cause much less desync then others, and obviously those playstyles are the most boring ones (i.e standing around and shooting arrows). Highly active builds that used skills like whiling blades/leap slam/charge to try and dodge damage basically got massively punished by predictive play, as did any sought of playstyle that involved reflex's to attempt to dodge damage. So in essence all this did was promote the whole "stand still and tank and AoE" playstyle

Lockstep means, that anyone with 90 or less ping, can easily play without any issues (including desync). You can even play in the 90-150 range. The best thing about lockstep, is that ironically, it allows you to predict a lot easier, since you can account for delay (up to a certain point). Desync was completely random.

Point is, even though I have issues with the current death penalty, changing it due to having bad connections is a really bad argument. Its the equivalent of complaining that your car is shit because you happen to drive on a road full of potholes. If you are playing an online games, its expected that you have a decent connection, and games should not be designed around people having bad internet connections. In fact, thats what got PoE into this huge mess, predictive was a failed attempt (due to the laws of physics), to try and get PoE to work for people on bad connections. While it may have marginally improved it for them, it did so at the cost of everyone else

Predictive realy isn't that bad anymore.
when they rewrote the netcode for lockstep, Jonathan found allot of flaws in the predictive mode and fixed that shit.
there's still d sync ofcourse but nowhere near the same levels that Pre-2.0 had
when i was playing in CB i really needed a while before i noticed i was not playing lockstep but predictive.

replace the xp penalty with a gear penalty.
every time you die, a piece(or more) of your gear gets downgraded to a lower item-base.
Ex: you start of with an astral plate with 1300 armor(with mods) and after a few deaths you end up with a plate vest with 130 armor.
GGandG.

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blueeyedevil wrote:

What I don't understand is why people care if the death penalty is gone it just kills me that there is a player base of mostly hardcore players who love the idea of hurting others fun.

I take it you don't trade very often.
Honestly, 2.0 made some pretty huge changes to experience.
Never has it ever been as easy to level up as it is now, with the exp changes you can level 68-69 characters in a jiffy and gearing them up has never been easier (well that part might not be true, I have been pretty lucky so far).

That said I find that interesting builds begin to struggle at the 60-65 range when they start hitting act 3/act 4 difficulty walls in merciless; this is where the death penalty hurts me most imo.

I wouldn't be opposed to death penalties being something that is unique to maps.

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deteego wrote:

Point is, even though I have issues with the current death penalty, changing it due to having bad connections is a really bad argument.

Did I ask for that? No. What I did was pointing out that the current death penalty really sucks for players on connections that cannot run lockstep. And yes, active characters are really really hard to level on my connection after level 85-90 or so.

In another thread there was a good suggestion: Make the time after which you are disconnected adjustable. It seems like it is 6s at the moment, I would love to reset it to 1s when I am leveling. I would disconnect, but I would not die. Wouldn't that be a very good idea? For people on good connections, nothing would change, and the adjustment is probably pretty easy to implement.

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kreca74 wrote:

replace the xp penalty with a gear penalty.
every time you die, a piece(or more) of your gear gets downgraded to a lower item-base.
Ex: you start of with an astral plate with 1300 armor(with mods) and after a few deaths you end up with a plate vest with 130 armor.
GGandG.

Oh yes! Please! Make the death penalty a permanent penalty, for more punishment.

Besides, as a caster, I do not care about the base item of any of my items, I only care about the stats on them.

I love how stupid peoples reasoning is.. Quitting when it gets hard to level doesn't suggest a weak player. It suggest that some people know a game shouldn't be a JOB.

Aside from leveling? There is the trading system that bores the game.. No cash on delivery box for traders? So sit and wait all day every day for people to pm you about buying your items? With many people being on at different times? Come on you sheep.. Let go of your ankles, stand up, and expect MORE than what you have. You expect everything to stay as small as it is? Go join the Amish. Hopefully a plague will come through and help end your obsolete lifestyle.

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Ultrasound wrote:

I love how stupid peoples reasoning is.. Quitting when it gets hard to level doesn't suggest a weak player. It suggest that some people know a game shouldn't be a JOB.

Aside from leveling? There is the trading system that bores the game.. No cash on delivery box for traders? So sit and wait all day every day for people to pm you about buying your items? With many people being on at different times? Come on you sheep.. Let go of your ankles, stand up, and expect MORE than what you have. You expect everything to stay as small as it is? Go join the Amish. Hopefully a plague will come through and help end your obsolete lifestyle.

I love how you think you are right, when you are not. Not only that you bash peoples reasoning and then say the "crap" you did just makes it so much easier to come up with the best response ever.

Quiting when it gets hard to level not only suggest a weak player, but the inability to improve over time. If you want to play a game where you destroy monsters and don't worry about anything in the process there are many of them out there, however this game was not designed to be that type of game.

If you feel the game is a Job then you aren't having the fun you should be with it and you for sure aren't utilizing various resources to help you in your quest. That might be a flaw of the game by not having the resources in the game, but the larger issue is players EXPECTING all of these resources to be handed to them on a golden platter in the game. This style of game isn't a typical pickup and go, it takes research, planning and dedication to make a character that can go far and achieve the most. Its that DEPTH the game provides that allows for the replay-ability for a long amount of time, compared to "similar" games.

The trade system is all but unnecessary really at this point, aside from wanting key unqiue items. Even so those key unqiue items almost all have divination cards that allow for "planned" farming. You can play this game, long term without trading and achieve most of what is possible in PoE, however if you want to try everything or super rare items, you trade, simply because its easier.

COD system or automated trade system is not only WRONG for any ARPG game it goes against the core principle of trying to FIND items rather then just buy them.



You wanna talk about sheep when the message you are sending is hey people there are other games out there that have these features, why isn't PoE just like XX game or YY game, I mean come on its 2015.

The homogonization of games is a real issue, if not one of the largest issues in the gaming scene. This game wasn't created to be a large D3 style cater to all types of gamers game. This game was created to cater to hardcore D2 fans that enjoyed the scene\playstyle\art\feel of the "dark" oldschool ARPG. Its clear that PoE was never intended to do what a larger game like D3 did, which was to cater to huge amounts of players, including console players (although apparently that may be a thing for PoE in the future)

So while you make remarks like smalltown Amish people and they should all die, you need to be careful what you wish for. I know I don't want the ARPG genre to become a state market similar to Call of Duty\Battlefield where there isn't much difference from game to game. I like smaller genre type effort, even if it has some issues its those design choices that make them unqiue. Stop fucking trying to homogonize PoE and an even larger message, stop fucking trying to homogonize every single fucking game.

Just died twice again at level 90 / 71%. now at 51%. First lag spike came out of nowhere, I was stupid enough to hope that it was the new Brazilian server. It wasn't.

If anyone can give a reasonable explanation to me why I should be punished for something that is completely unforseeable and completely unavoidable, please, tell me. And it is not that the game could not have detected the problem, there was pretty obviously a data transfer loss for >3 seconds.

So again: Please, GGG, build a lag spike detection system, to make death penalty somewhat more fair.

Oh wait, no, I will just learn how to play the game properly and how to detect unforseeable lag spikes. Maybe I should buy a crystal ball.

i play about 2h a day at night POE, so wouldn't consider as hardcode but i think death penalty is not necessarily a bad thing.
Don't get me wrong, this pisses me off when I die but at the same it keeps the game interesting.

But what pisses me off the most and i think that's what should be fixed, is that the content is f*** gated. Why should i farm maps 75-77 while being lvl91 ?? Why can't I play the difficulty matching my character level ? Why XP earning is less and less while the bar is bigger and bigger ? That's just ridiculous.
In D3 everything scales. You farm higher content for higher XP to fill your higher bar.

However, if they remove the death penalty they would need to do some changes like resetting life of trash/boss upon death in order to not trivialize the content and easy boss farming (malachai is going to be fun LOL)