Game is Dead. RIP POE 2014.

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BerMalBerIst1 wrote:

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Jackel6672 wrote:

I know you mean well, but at that stage in the games life the developers did not want to add in loot options. There was giant crap storms on the forums going on with hundreds upon hundreds of posts arguing back and forth.

The developers eventually caved due to the pressure and went back on the "loot tension" being a needed thing in the game to promote the exile life style.

I always thought a good look into the developers mind set back in that time was to watch some of the old cut throat race / league videos Chris made.

Things change over time

You adapt or you don't

Not up to me to force anyone to evolve lul

I know. Since were talking about ancient history as far as this game is concerned, I figured I would chime in.

I was a lot more active back then, as things actually pertained to things I valued in the game.

Seriously though, if you haven't seen it go watch one of those old videos. Its pretty funny to see a lead developer killing people as they leave town and then taunting them.

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BerMalBerIst1 wrote:

evolution

Really.

You consider instanced loot somehow innovative? A growth of the genre?

I'm not saying Short Allocation was a finished, polished system, but it was innovative. If given a chance by the developers, it could have evolved into a system which was not merely innovative, but also fair and fun. It was a work in progress.

But it never got that chance. The masses are usually right about when a system is broken, and SA was. But it was not necessarily irreparable - the masses didn't understand this, because no solution was obvious. It would take time to fix properly - the masses were impatient. There was a niche of the population which even the broken SA served - the masses said a niche wasn't important, not compared to The Whole. Whatever that is.

The masses didn't, and never, ask for evolution. If they knew what that was, it would be status quo already. They want the familiar. They asked for devolution. In essence, they didn't ask for a loot system, but more properly a lack of one.

All this was fine and to be expected.

What wasn't fine is the GGG did what the masses said to do.

They caved hard on this one.

Hind sight being 20/20, I think they should have went with a 10 second SA, and FFA. Never should they have added PA, since PA is the default when it comes to "get my loot now, or later".

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BerMalBerIst1 wrote:

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

I don’t blame GGG entirely, I blame the entitled babies who could not stand the game the way it was made, and because of them a HUGE chunk of the game we called ‘loot tension’ is now missing.

Yeah well I say the entitled babies are the ones that want it their way and never want to allow for any evolution and change as the game grows.

Agree to disagree m8 ;)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The masses didn't, and never, ask for evolution.

That's not really true, masses are actually fairly vocal about it when the evolution is truly necessary.

But, when will the masses ask for evolution? When something universally sucks? Then was it popular enough to be widely used if it sucks? The usual answer is masses were forced to use it, like for instance when updating weapons in army. Many weapons initially sucked and eventually evolved because masses asked for it.
So, why aren't steering wheels being replaced with joysticks? Simple, because steering wheels don't suck, not because masses are familiar with them, piloting sticks can also do the job but there's nothing really going for them, there's no need for change.

Also, there's one more thing to consider, is FFA loot actually the evolved form? From my experience, all loot in games was once up for grabs and instanced loot is the evolved form. Some of us probably remember playing co-op games in arcades, you could go around grabbing stuff left and right but that would only reduce your chance to beat the game.

However, cooperating in that way has little effect on beating the game in PoE, so can it really be considered a co-op game in the first place? Maybe it never was in the true sense. But why the partying system then? Why controlled instancing? Do you want to fight your fellow players or work with them? The whole FFA loot conundrum smacks too much of online interactions, insulting people with a smiley.

It's interesting to me how passionately some people defend the old way.

Not because I don't expect that kind of behavior from closed beta supporters, but because no one, and I mean NO ONE I have ever partied with has even suggested that I turn on FFA. It seems to me that this concept of loot tension is about as popular as desync.

Yet, from reading some of these posts, you get the idea that the very soul of POE was gutted by allowing people to not feel like they are dicking over their friends by being the first to grab that Shavs.

If PA was not an option, I would play with no one. I'm far from alone in that sentiment. Think about that for a sec... Is that healthy for a game trying to promote the multiplayer aspect? Is it worth clinging to so much anger over something so hugely unpopular?

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Antnee wrote:

It's interesting to me how passionately some people defend the old way.

Not because I don't expect that kind of behavior from closed beta supporters, but because no one, and I mean NO ONE I have ever partied with has even suggested that I turn on FFA. It seems to me that this concept of loot tension is about as popular as desync.

Yet, from reading some of these posts, you get the idea that the very soul of POE was gutted by allowing people to not feel like they are dicking over their friends by being the first to grab that Shavs.

If PA was not an option, I would play with no one. I'm far from alone in that sentiment. Think about that for a sec... Is that healthy for a game trying to promote the multiplayer aspect? Is it worth clinging to so much anger over something so hugely unpopular?

well said Ant.

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Antnee wrote:

the very soul of POE was gutted by [not] allowing people to [dick] over their friends by being the first to grab that Shavs.

I would have said a part of its soul.

But yes. Obviously.

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Antnee wrote:

It's interesting to me how passionately some people defend the old way.

Not because I don't expect that kind of behavior from closed beta supporters, but because no one, and I mean NO ONE I have ever partied with has even suggested that I turn on FFA. It seems to me that this concept of loot tension is about as popular as desync.

Yet, from reading some of these posts, you get the idea that the very soul of POE was gutted by allowing people to not feel like they are dicking over their friends by being the first to grab that Shavs.

If PA was not an option, I would play with no one. I'm far from alone in that sentiment. Think about that for a sec... Is that healthy for a game trying to promote the multiplayer aspect? Is it worth clinging to so much anger over something so hugely unpopular?

The problem I argued back then on the forums was that with a PA option, there is no choice. Popularity does not necessarily make it the right choice. Free re-specs are a popular idea.

I am also from a generation of gamers that didn't have a problem taking something willy nilly. If you played any of the old Gauntlet games, or any of the older Arpgs its easier to understand. The concept of "its mine when I pick it up" is something I lived with all through my gaming history.

The exodus of D3 players around that time frame also had a lot to do with it.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

The problem I argued back then on the forums was that with a PA option, there is no choice. Popularity does not necessarily make it the right choice. Free re-specs are a popular idea.

I am also from a generation of gamers that didn't have a problem taking something willy nilly. If you played any of the old Gauntlet games, or any of the older Arpgs its easier to understand. The concept of "its mine when I pick it up" is something I lived with all through my gaming history.

I think you may be assuming that I am not from your generation. You'd be wrong.

I simply do not find value in loot tension, and never, ever have. I also do not think it's fair to compare FFA loot with any other mechanic in the game (such as free respecs); it's by-and-large a completely different mentality that we're talking about here. It has nothing to do with difficulty, or how I play the game by myself, but everything to do with how I interact with other human beings playing the game with me.

FFA loot is a PvP mechanic, when you really cut to the core. I do not want PvP in my POE experience in any way, shape, or form.