rebalancing crit

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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vangrandson wrote:

But if we, the players, dont say anything ggg thinks that everything is fine and nothing will change.

Ever think maybe it is fine? Plenty of us, the players, do.

plenty of people have been wrong before. i could make a couple references in-which millions were wrong if you want

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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vangrandson wrote:

But if we, the players, dont say anything ggg thinks that everything is fine and nothing will change.

Ever think maybe it is fine? Plenty of us, the players, do.

plenty of people have been wrong before. i could make a couple references in-which millions were wrong if you want

So could I, but the burden of proof lies with the person saying there's anything wrong with Crit or CoC builds, and of the dozens of topics on the front page alone, I have yet to see one compelling argument.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

So could I, but the burden of proof lies with the person saying there's anything wrong with Crit or CoC builds, and of the dozens of topics on the front page alone, I have yet to see one compelling argument.

No, the burden of proof always lays on the person trying to change the status quo. It's your job to convince GGG to change crit. Not people who say it's fine to keep it the same.

That's what this forum and reddit seem to ignore. It isn't a popularity contest, things shouldn't just change because many people want it to happen, but because there's a good reason for the change.


My opinion is crit is too strong but at the same time CoC is a very fun playstyle. Nerfing crit multi seems to do nothing as it's been nerfed what, 3-5 times now? Nerfing crit chance will make CoC disappear or grossly ineffective. I think it's balance like OB had with the introduction of act 4 that we need. Buff up non-crit, nerf multi a little more then buff mob HP.

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Moosifer wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

So could I, but the burden of proof lies with the person saying there's anything wrong with Crit or CoC builds, and of the dozens of topics on the front page alone, I have yet to see one compelling argument.

No, the burden of proof always lays on the person trying to change the status quo. It's your job to convince GGG to change crit. Not people who say it's fine to keep it the same.

That's what this forum and reddit seem to ignore. It isn't a popularity contest, things shouldn't just change because many people want it to happen, but because there's a good reason for the change.


My opinion is crit is too strong but at the same time CoC is a very fun playstyle. Nerfing crit multi seems to do nothing as it's been nerfed what, 3-5 times now? Nerfing crit chance will make CoC disappear or grossly ineffective. I think it's balance like OB had with the introduction of act 4 that we need. Buff up non-crit, nerf multi a little more then buff mob HP.

I think you misunderstand my stance.

I want them to leave crit alone--and buff the non-crit things (if they really need it).

The burden lies with the people who want to nerf crit.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

I think you misunderstand my stance.

I want them to leave crit alone--and buff the non-crit things (if they really need it).

The burden lies with the people who want to nerf crit.

Do you also advocate for increasing enemy difficulty at the same time, or do you just power creep?
Nerfing crit is the same as buffing non-crit and buffing game difficulty at the same time.

The only difference is that one is a small change and the other is a massive change. Why would anyone opt for the massive change willingly?

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pneuma wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

I think you misunderstand my stance.

I want them to leave crit alone--and buff the non-crit things (if they really need it).

The burden lies with the people who want to nerf crit.

Do you also advocate for increasing enemy difficulty at the same time, or do you just power creep?
Nerfing crit is the same as buffing non-crit and buffing game difficulty at the same time.

The only difference is that one is a small change and the other is a massive change. Why would anyone opt for the massive change willingly?

Generally people don't like the idea that their builds become weaker. People get used to it working a certain way and if you remove the ability for struggling builds that fall under that category then those are the most vocal players.

I think in general most threads that complain this or that needs nerfed have no idea how the build works or how they could do something similar, so they call for a nerf (on those builds) or a buff to theirs.

I don't know that presuming upon the motives of their posts is the wisest approach, but I do agree with you that calling for nerfs for everything just to make your own build seem stronger is highly suspect.

As for the guy asking about buffing the monsters too,

The "real" game for many players doesn't start until 60, and end-game viable builds vary greatly in their effectiveness. It's possible that there may be some map tweaks, but that should be one of those wait-and-see deals. Besides that, the Hall of the Champions has already shown to be clearable with the right kind of "cheese" build, so I don't know that buffing numbers alone would solve anything in regards to the "power creep" myth.

Okay, I finally get it now.

You guys are taking buffs and nerfs personally. Like... you actually feel like your build being nerfed is an affront against you playing the game, or people asking for buffs are just asking for them so that they can "win".

That's not how this game works. Big things are changed between leagues, and characters don't span leagues. Just because something used to be stronger or weaker in a previous league/version of the game doesn't actually affect the current game. It's like the legacy argument but for entire characters, not just the items on the characters.

Characters don't last forever, and builds certainly don't last forever. The game has dozens of character slots per account for a reason -- it's intended that you keep making new ones.

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And no, power creep is not a myth at all. It's not mythical that people are leveling higher and faster than they ever were in the past, nor is it fantasy that the highest dps in the game just keeps ticking up.

For people who desire an easier game, that's progress.
For those who desire a harder game or at least for the difficulty to stay the same, it's regress.

In any event, unless GGG is stating otherwise (namely that they they're intending the game to be easier), then power creep is at least a design failure on their part.

So your argument boils down to an dressed up ad hominem followed by a dressed up "no u" ?

k

-Ranged crit is very different from melee crit

-Crit can scale all available damage. Physical, flat elemental etc. Other scalings that can do that as well are attack speed and spell damage passives when using crown of eyes. This becomes more apparent when you scale auras. Most broken non-trigger crit builds synergise some or all of the above.

-crit can trigger spells, which also synergises with attack speed. THe whole cast on crit gem was a mistake.

So the problem is not crit alone but OP synergies, mostly with ranged attacks/spells. This is hard to fix due to the design of the game, which was overly ambitious.