rebalancing crit

"

goetzjam wrote:

Caps are the dumbest and laziest game design options available.

Fun fact first 2 parts the the uber atziri fight was done by a melee character, then later used a specific character to fight atziri herself in invasion. Of course you don't possibly know this or you would not have made such comments.

In addition uber atziri is not PoE, uber atziri is a part of PoE, you don't balance the WHOLE game around something not even .1% of players will even attempt to do.

Again this propaganda? Maybe you start something new?

Caps you dont like... yeah
First kill with legacy items and legacy skill tree was melee... huh

Did you ever see how many streamers and service ranged and how many melee? Its like 1% melee and 99% R A N G E D chars, but you still want so much to believe in that stupid propaganda.

Btw so what IF(!!) melee was first (lol :) so what, you think melee well balanced and ranged pretty weak? Crits needs more cap:
Crit chance = 40-45%
Chance to hit = 80-85%
Crit multi = 400-450%

"

Helpmegod wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Caps are the dumbest and laziest game design options available.

Fun fact first 2 parts the the uber atziri fight was done by a melee character, then later used a specific character to fight atziri herself in invasion. Of course you don't possibly know this or you would not have made such comments.

In addition uber atziri is not PoE, uber atziri is a part of PoE, you don't balance the WHOLE game around something not even .1% of players will even attempt to do.

Again this propaganda? Maybe you start something new?

Caps you dont like... yeah
First kill with legacy items and legacy skill tree was melee... huh

Did you ever see how many streamers and service ranged and how many melee? Its like 1% melee and 99% R A N G E D chars, but you still want so much to believe in that stupid propaganda.

Btw so what? Crits needs more cap:
Crit chance = 40-45%
Chance to hit = 80-85%
Crit multi = 400-450%

Streamer=vast majority of PoE's player base and therefore should have the game balanced around them. (facepalm so hard)

Propaganda LOL, you are using streamers to try and support your argument that melee is completely and utterly shit, therefore crit must be nerfed?

Caps are a LAZY solution, they decrease the build diversity as well as reduce gearing options, but your right caps are needed because you say so.

If you enjoy caps go play D3, I personally do not, its a terrible terrible way to balance a game and isn't something GGG will do. But go ahead and suggest it :D

There have been lots of great ideas about how to treat crit without enforcing hard caps. I think we should continue exploring those instead of arguing about hard caps.

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

There have been lots of great ideas about how to treat crit without enforcing hard caps. I think we should continue exploring those instead of arguing about hard caps.

"

CanHasPants wrote:

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

There have been lots of great ideas about how to treat crit without enforcing hard caps. I think we should continue exploring those instead of arguing about hard caps.

Bump this thread and again true about crits:

Crits need more cap:
Crit chance = 40-45%
Chance to hit = 80-85%
Crit multi = 400-450%

"

Helpmegod wrote:

Bump this thread and again true about crits:

Crits need more cap:
Crit chance = 40-45%
Chance to hit = 80-85%
Crit multi = 400-450%

It's bad design, and GGG would be remiss to listen to this kind of lunacy. Caps are a lazy and ineffective way to attempt to achieve "balance," which is itself a purely subjective concept anyway. There are better ways to achieve what you want these caps to do that don't involve neutering builds or build diversity.

"

Helpmegod wrote:

Bump this thread and again true about crits:

Crits need more cap:
Crit chance = 40-45%
Chance to hit = 80-85%
Crit multi = 400-450%

Totally agreed with AlbinosaurusRex! No way capping will make us happy!

I play ranged with a Lioneye's Glare and i have to say my gear is not high end, but still not too cheap!
Because of the 100% chance to hit, my crit is just ~35%. When GGG now changes Base Crit on everything (like some geniuses suggested) i could end up with less than 20% crit .... can you call that even a "critical build"??
Also there is always a downside until you have perfect equipment -> survivability!

On my ranger i have capped resis, ~30/40/30 evasion ratings and a little over 3k life. That's still pretty weak, if you look on any map with mods like "extra damage, extra ele dmg, curses on players, ...."
So if you don't have any reliable damagedealing how are you supposed to survive???

Also crit chance has just been nerfed at some point to the start of torment, i guess.

And to the argument, that 1% of exiles go melee and the other 99% are ranged, "great exxxxxxxaggeration" btw, is not caused by crit builds or clear speed. It is basically on another page -> the desync page!
I think everybody who likes this game played a melee char at least once and suffered like hell from desync (despite the mechanics against desync). Also melee highend chars have clearspeed like Chuck Norris on whac-a-mole!

I hope this will stay as it stands and they just change mechanics of specific Gems, which seem OP.
Best of luck to all of you, Exiles!
See you in my HO ;)
Felix

I loved crit. I played crit. I even made a guide for one the most popular shadow builds of all time based on crit, back in the day. Do i think that crit is well designed in this game. No, not even close. Basically because there is no crit(on the high end). When you crit 85% of the time(95% crit chance+90% accuraccy), your crits are essentially your normal damage, and ends up like a straight damage multiplier. This is way too far away from the concept of critical strikes. On virtually 90% of the games, critical strikes range from 20% to maybe 50%. 50% is already high, really high, but anything beyond that is just rediculous, when your critical strikes end up being far more frequent than your normal hits.

What's even more rediculous is that you can crit whole packs as well without penalties. When i proposed that AoE attacks should have reduced damage effectiveness on critical strikes i was almost eaten alive. Critical strike is bascially an assasin backstab or a headshot. It is amazing that we've come to considering normal and good design the fact that you can score a headshot to 15+ mobs concurrently, on 9 out of 10 times you attack, at a fire rate of 10 attacks per second.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Helpmegod wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Caps are the dumbest and laziest game design options available.

Fun fact first 2 parts the the uber atziri fight was done by a melee character, then later used a specific character to fight atziri herself in invasion. Of course you don't possibly know this or you would not have made such comments.

In addition uber atziri is not PoE, uber atziri is a part of PoE, you don't balance the WHOLE game around something not even .1% of players will even attempt to do.

Again this propaganda? Maybe you start something new?

Caps you dont like... yeah
First kill with legacy items and legacy skill tree was melee... huh

Did you ever see how many streamers and service ranged and how many melee? Its like 1% melee and 99% R A N G E D chars, but you still want so much to believe in that stupid propaganda.

Btw so what? Crits needs more cap:
Crit chance = 40-45%
Chance to hit = 80-85%
Crit multi = 400-450%

Streamer=vast majority of PoE's player base and therefore should have the game balanced around them. (facepalm so hard)

Propaganda LOL, you are using streamers to try and support your argument that melee is completely and utterly shit, therefore crit must be nerfed?

Caps are a LAZY solution, they decrease the build diversity as well as reduce gearing options, but your right caps are needed because you say so.

If you enjoy caps go play D3, I personally do not, its a terrible terrible way to balance a game and isn't something GGG will do. But go ahead and suggest it :D

incorrect, caps aren't lazy , they are simple. And as a tool being simple is valuable as it makes the mechanic in question easier to work with.

I will not for a second say caps are the best solution. the best solution would have never to introduce crit the way it is,

status ailments should never have been tied to crit
surgeons flasks should never have existed
crit multi should have being dramatically limited
and crit chance on gear should have had very little variance with 5 being the lowest and 7 being the highest.

if ggg introduced the mechanic in a weaker state and balanced from there we wouldnt have all these people spoiled by the power the current crit gives complaining about changes.

and to be fair i absolutely dont blame them, it is not their fault ggg put crit on a magic pedestal since day one and on an alter of god hood since coc was put in. They took what was effective and ran with it.

but you have to understand now that people have grown attached to those things. nerf/ remove surgeons people will hate you

nerf crit on the tree again.. people will hate you

nerf crit on items , and god help you they will throw you into a pit and bury you in magma.


the only real options that wont completely murder you would be the removal of crit nodes from the tree instead of nerfing their value or.... adding in caps.

and lets not pretend caps dont exist or some sort of sacrilege , they are present everywhere and are a HUGE part of balance

from block to max minions to resist caps ... they are everywhere, hell crit right now has caps, you are complaining about the potential existence of a cap on something that ALREADY HAS A FUCKING CAP.

(95%)