Mechanics thread

good job

If I pair Fireball with Piercing support when the fireball manages to pierce its target does it do AoE damage to that target or only to ones that it does not manage to pierce?

Only to targets it doesn't pierce, or at the end of its duration.

One of my usual rants. %IED skillnodes aren't underpowered, in fact they're still extremely strong; you just have to support your attacks correctly.

10% increased ele dmg vs x% increased physi dmg nodes, on an elemental conversion skill: LS, IB, GH, when supported by a level 17 weapon elemental damage gem (77% more elemental damage with weapons; that's multiplicative)

First I am assuming that you are using a pure physical dmg weapon. This is probably only actually a good choice if your weapon type has a slow base attack speed.

Physical damage: WD * 0.5 * ( 1 + %P )
Elemental damage: WD * 0.5 * ( 1 + %P + %E ) * 1.77

Total:
DMG = 0.5 * WD [ 1 + %P + 1.77 + 1.77 * %P + 1.77 * %E ]
DMG = 0.5 * WD [ 2.77 + 2.77 * %P + 1.77 %E ]

How much %P would you need, then, to match 10% IED?

2.77 * %P1 + 1.77 %E1 = 2.77 * %P2 + 1.77 %E2
2.77 * %P1 + 1.77 %E1 = 2.77 * ( %P1 + D ) + 1.77 * ( %E1 - 10 )

Solve for delta D, which makes dmg 1 = dmg 2.
wolfram alpha solution
10% IED becomes equivalent to 6.4% IPD.

6% single-element nodes on the other hand kind of suck unless you're an elementalist spellcaster.

Now consider that most clusters with %IED include a pretty significant secondary effect - %resist all, or a keystone with more than 10%, something. For instance, the catalyze cluster is worth 50% IED for 3 skillpoints, equivalent to 32% IPD. That's 11% per skillpoint, folks.

%IED passives are still very strong despite the nerf when using elemental conversion abilities with a weapon elemental support.

This math would have to be re-done for other supports.

(inspired by a pretty heated argument I had in game chat :b)

speaking of elemental damage, a few people were asking me what the calculation for status effect duration for shock/chill/freeze. any dev mind answering because i obviously don't know further than that the damage is half the equation XD.

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soul4hdwn wrote:

speaking of elemental damage, a few people were asking me what the calculation for status effect duration for shock/chill/freeze. any dev mind answering because i obviously don't know further than that the damage is half the equation XD.

Lol, hello again soul :D(I'm the one that was asking you in game).

I see you beat me to the punch xD I PM'd Malice earlier, hopefully that helps. I figured topic creator would be a good place to start! Anyway, thanks again for all of your helpful replies in game :D

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soul4hdwn wrote:

speaking of elemental damage, a few people were asking me what the calculation for status effect duration for shock/chill/freeze. any dev mind answering because i obviously don't know further than that the damage is half the equation XD.

I think the formula is something like the stun chance :

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Malice wrote:

stun_chance = 200 * damage / defender_effective_max_life

But instead of chance, it gives duration. Of course the flat multiplier is different, and probably different between freeze/chilled/shock.

So it could be formula like that :

freeze duration = ( X * cold damage / defender effective max life ) * ( 1 + %freeze duration)

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Kissan wrote:

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soul4hdwn wrote:

speaking of elemental damage, a few people were asking me what the calculation for status effect duration for shock/chill/freeze. any dev mind answering because i obviously don't know further than that the damage is half the equation XD.

I think the formula is something like the stun chance :

"

Malice wrote:

stun_chance = 200 * damage / defender_effective_max_life

But instead of chance, it gives duration. Of course the flat multiplier is different, and probably different between freeze/chilled/shock.

So it could be formula like that :

freeze duration = ( X * cold damage / defender effective max life ) * ( 1 + %freeze duration)

That was my first guess as well, and included that in my PM to Malice.

"

Zakaluka wrote:

One of my usual rants. %IED skillnodes aren't underpowered, in fact they're still extremely strong; you just have to support your attacks correctly.

Not to get in the middle of the spat, but you really did some cherry picking in your formula. You picked the strongest Weapon Ele cluster (Catalyze), and there are only 3 such clusters in the tree, all spread out. You also picked a skill that favors the elemental damage. I could make Elemental damage look really weak if I picked a skill that didn't buff elemental damage like LS does. You also are assuming a pure physical weapon, which is a huge advantage to the physical side. Basically, there are giant holes, on both sides, with the entire comparison that you posted.

Most Classes have a lot of physical nodes close to their starting point which focus on the weapons they're most likely to use along with several generic physical damage nodes that are common around Duelist, Templar and Marauder. Yes you'll spend more points, but they're far more accessible than the elemental clusters for anyone except Templar.

My Elemental Bow Templar Went crit chance for DPS (after the 0.9.11 tree change) as it is far more efficient than elemental damage now (I took the Catalyze cluster simply because I started at Templar and it would be stupid not to).

Ultimately we really need a fresh economy, without the old elemental mods on weapons and accessories to see how it trends. Right now it will trend away from elemental as the mods are just too hard to get. There's a reason no one finished in the top 20 as a Templar in the Hardcore 2 week ladder race despite Templar starting next to the best Weapon Elemental Damage cluster on the tree. It simply isn't that good with the elemental mod rates that are now in place.

While I don't know how the rarer elemental mods on item play out, I disagree on elemental damage nodes being unreachable for anyone other than Templar. This build starts from shadow tree, packs a few es and crit nodes, ans still able to get a lot of elemental nodes.

In addition, there're aura to count on, even if your item fails to deliver a lot of elemental damage.