Kinetic blast/Tornado Shot - You broke your own rule
" except...they do. You just described shotgunning. Adding LMP/GMP magnifies the damage because you can then hit with multiple projectiles and do full (while penalized) damage with them, amping your damage up to 250% of it's original. That's called shotgunning, and Tornado shot does this. The only difference is that most other skills that shotgun require you to get close in order to get the overlap. Because Tornado shot has what is BASICALLY a built in chain attached to it (arrows subsequently fire off in seemingly random directions much like chain does with a bit more accuracy), it can shotgun at extreme range, rendering the main drawback to shotgunning completely moot. Why is this OP? Compared to spells that shotgun -> Because you don't need to be at point blank like everyone else, allowing you to spec much heavier into damage and not nearly as much into durability as you are facetaking a lot less shit. Also allows you to clear MIUCH faster becaus eyou dont need to run to the packs. Compared to other attacks that don't -> in order to make them shotgun like TS does on its own, you need to add chain - which adds a 50% damage reduction and a 175% mana multiplier AND eats a link slot. Tornado shot dodges those penalities. If you can't see the problem with that, then bloody hell what are you doing in this discussion? I find that builds in PoE are much like Decks in Hearthstone. They're all stictly speaking overpowered in some respect, that's what makes them viable. If there's not something unfair about it, then it's not a great build. The problem comes when something is SO unfair that it renders all (or most) other competing skills moot. Static strike pretty much does this because it has a free melee splash built in with inc aoe and a MASSIVE damage conversion. Tornado shot does this because it pretty much has a poor mans chain on it, as well as a conditional pierce for that lovely drillneck synergy. Kinetic blast does this because...well...it doesn't. There are no aoe skills for wands, so kinetic blast isn't competing with anything. Power siphon has Culling and power charge on kill, so it's strong in it's own right - and we don't talk about barrage... "omg wand skills so much better than bow skills..." Yea, but wands base damage compared to bows is so shitty the non-exchangable skills have to be more powerful by comparison. "If you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." ~David Dunning Last edited by TikoXi#0194 on Jan 9, 2015, 7:09:07 AM
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To realize how OP KB is, just watch Etups stream - he is clearing high end maps with no dgm boost support on his KB. Just pure, raw KB (he is using KB+GMP+CoC+Frost Wall+FA I think).
Got to mid of Torment with it before I got bored with one shotting everything a screen away. „I don't give a fuck if it was his tenth anniversary with his goddamn neckbeard...“
„If they think I'm going to let them sweep this pizza guy thing under the rug...“ No mod action. Business as usual. |
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" "Psst - faster attacks is a major dps boost." "Psst, coc-frost wall is mechanically also a damage boost...in a very bizzare way" "If you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." ~David Dunning Last edited by TikoXi#0194 on Jan 9, 2015, 7:12:21 AM
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Don't be condescending.
Frost Wall is practically zero dps compared to what you can get at high level from other supports like WED, added fire, conc. etc. If you watched him play, you would see that FW is just for defenses, it does almost no damage. The point is, he is using KB+FA+GMP and clearing high end maps. Which other skill can be so effective at 3L? „I don't give a fuck if it was his tenth anniversary with his goddamn neckbeard...“ „If they think I'm going to let them sweep this pizza guy thing under the rug...“ No mod action. Business as usual. Last edited by Odoakar#1827 on Jan 9, 2015, 8:33:06 AM
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'Don't play the game'
'Don't use that skill' 'It doesnt affect you so stfu' Really guys? This is the feedback section. How would anyone even give feedback with that mentality and with the mentality that nothing is wrong with the game? |
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" no, they dont shotgun. You fire 5 arrows with gmp, only 1 of those arrows can hit the target, because attacks dont shotgun, its that simple. The after effects of those 5 arrows can shotgun, same way the after effect of lightning arrow can shotgun. You dont need chain? Ya, you dont need gmp with split arrow either, and you dont need chain to hit the same target twice with lightning arrow, even though it doesnt shotgun. When they say attacks cant shotgun, they mean when you fire 3 or 5 arrows out the initial arrows cant all hit 1 target on attacks, thats what they mean by attacks cant shotgun, and tornado shot by this definition cant shotgun. Ive explained this already sorry if you dont have the capacity to understand that tornado shot works the same way other bow skills have for the last 2 years. Tornado shot doesnt have built in chain, its nothing like built in chain. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" I'm sorry you failed to comprehend my explanation, it's a difficult prospect to wrap your head around. However I can say hopefully with full clarity that you might as well have your pants on your head for as backwards as you interpreted what I said. Also sidenote: "Correct, but also... "Correct. Hence - the skill shotguns. You don't get to pick and choose which component classifies as shotgunning or not - 1 cast of a skill can hit 1 person more than once, when supported by an additional projectiles support gem, resulting in the magnification of the base damage, it shotguns. (Special case for spectral throw, because the projectiles return but we don't really talk about that eventuality) LMP shotgun boosts damage by up to 210%. GMP shotgun boosts damage by up to 250% (though within reason, it's often only 200% against a single target). Tornado shot can make tricky but full benefit of this. Lightning arrow can, but it's extremely difficult to perform due to the small aoe of the secondary effect detonation, and that's all the difference. Lightning arrow's shotgunning 'area of effectiveness' is extremely small, whereas tornado shot's secondary effect goes as far as the arrow can fly. If you still don't get it - I really don't think you ever will, sadly :/ "If you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." ~David Dunning
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" lightning arrow triggers its aoe off a hit, if you chain multi proj lightning arrow the amount of possible hits scales beyond tornado shot with the same setup, it shotguns more. I do get it, what you dont get is that attacks have always been able to shotgun in this regard, and hence the idea that tornado is somehow a new thing that breaks previous rules is not true, at all. You mentioned spec throw, it cant shotgun with the initial projectiles, no attack can shotgun with the initial projectiles, many attacks can shotgun with secondary effects, thats not something new with kinetic blast and tornado shot. Thats the point, the whole basis of them being op because they do something other attacks cant do is false. When GGG said attacks cant shotgun, they were talking about a specific component, they get to chose because they were making a true statement about part of their game they chose to talk about. I didn't make the choice, they chose that initial projectiles from attacks cant shotgun and that is still true. Split arrow chain clears as effectively as tornado gmp, so does ice shot pierce by all accounts but I havent tried that for myself. I know split arrow is as effective, sometimes more effective. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" While Frost Wall does zero DPS, it acts as a beacon for KB to have more concentrated damage from the AoE explosion since trapping the mob between you and the wall = easy kill. But you need use FW to make KB more effective in single-targeting. KB's specialty is in multi-targeting. You have to put in more effort to make KB out dps Power Siphon in the single-target department. Edit: I use both of them (KB and PS) in a build. Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game. - raics, 06.08.2016 Last edited by JohnNamikaze#6516 on Jan 9, 2015, 3:24:26 PM
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" This is not true. Tornado Shot is more like Fork, not Chain. Chain auto aims the nearest target and will always hit. |
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