risk/reward isn't coming. ever. [I give up]

"

1988288 wrote:

Just read a bit.. level 90 and no maps, because RNG screwed you? Yo, have you even played the game since the numerous direct and indirect map buffs? It's hard to run out of 72-75s nowadays (many even sell their 75s).

Then there's a thing about level 90 solo-sf requiring insane amount of time. Yeah and the thing about no such thing as "budget build" for a sf players. Yeah... stay classy, stay classy.

The game has become more open to solo and players overall, this is the easiest version of the game atm. If you even bothered adapting, learning, getting better, taking advice (instead of calling others trolls, thinking your way is best, etc, etc, etc) maybe we wouldn't see these kind of useless whiny threads of yours.

Really.

I haven't even managed to get a single level 70 map yet and am running out of level 69 and 68 maps. Granted I don't craft them much, trans and go, but goddamn You dare to belittle the allmighty RNG.

Most players have no idea how deeply RNG can screw You if You play self found.

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

Gear checks lol. Someone just beat atziri with EB and CI. Watch the video, it's awesome.

That was a pretty cool watch...thanks for the heads up.

"

johnKeys wrote:

that's not going to change. it can't. full-trade will always be the best way. and trading+playing will always be a lot better than just playing.
but what I want is the gap... no, the fucking abyss between the traders and none-traders in this game be made smaller. give those who are just here to play, a fighting chance. and if possible, do so in a way that feels like progression, and encourages taking on risks and challenges instead of just mindless grinding. like just about any other ARPG does.

What is this "fighting chance" that non-traders are lacking?

Level 100 is surely out of the question for solo self found but 90+ is pretty straight forward.

"

BazzV5 wrote:

What is this "fighting chance" that non-traders are lacking?

Level 100 is surely out of the question for solo self found but 90+ is pretty straight forward.

you just answered yourself.
but level 100 isn't out of question if your name is Anuhart and you put over seven thousand hours into the game, since Open Beta.

but I'm not talking about just leveling. mainly gear and content.

let the trade-tycoons flip a dozen 6-linked Shavs a day, every day. let them chain-farm face-tank Uber Atziri with their 1-billion-DPS-in-MF-Uber-mirrored-gear flavour-of-the-month builds, then sell Acuity Gloves in discount prices.

but does that mean a solo and/or self-found player should have a pretty damn high chance of never seeing one 6-linked Shavs or Acuity, no matter what he does?
never getting to open up a portal to Alluring Abyss, no matter what he does?
being forced to no-risk grind barrels in areas half his level, for that random Exalt or map because RNG screwed him again. and again. and again?

no.
hell no.

and the Shavs, Acuity, Uber Atziri, barrel Exalts etc' are all just metaphors.
things I use here to explain just how painful this game gets, if you dare look RNG in the randomized eyes, and scream "NO! I WON'T FUCKING TRADE! I'LL STAND RIGHT HERE AND FACE YOU, BITCH! THIS ... IS ... WRAECLAAAAAST!".
well... I think you know exactly what happened to the last guy who screamed something like this.
he got a Persian spear to the skull.

I'm not him. I'm a coward. I traded. more than I feel comfortable admitting.
I also got giveaways. almost as much as I gave away myself.
if it's "trade, or spear to the skull" - I'd rather trade.

but does it have to be "trade, or RNG spear to the skull"?
again, hell no.

this isn't just "Wraeclaaaaast!". it's also supposed to be a loot-based Action Role Playing Game.
we have enough Action. we certainly have a good amount of Role-Playing with that giant tree and tons of skill gems. but where is the loot? and why does my chance of killing a giant fucking Gold Dragon for that Flaming Sword Of Owning +10, feel pretty damn equal to my chance of just popping open a Barrel in Goblin Pass, and finding it inside?

PoE has a class system as the real world.

Same as I will never order 100 liter champaign bottles in a Dubai luxury hotel resort, I'll never have Acuity or a mirrored item.

Is this bad?
Probably, but as in real life, I've accepted this and it doesn't bother me too much, because there's still a lot of fun to it.

If you could only stop looking at the best of the best...

You don't need Acuity.
You don't need a mirror.
You don't need Uber Atziri.
You don't need Level 8 masters.
You don't need Level 100.

Leave it to those dedicated, crazy and wealthy enough.
To the 0.1% of player population.

Why do you focus only on "their" content, on their little corner in the game?

PoE can be very rewarding, very fun to play, on any level.
The fault is not in the game, it is in you.

Why do you compare yourself to the complete extreme opposite? Mainly, those in standard that have been "flipping" since OB?

This game is tested on what is basically self found. Or about as close as you're going to get. Players reach high levels consistently. Whether or not you make my word for it really doesn't matter. No one knows *for sure* if you're constantly getting screwed, but one thing for sure is this: the gear requirements to advance are low. The worst part about progression is the scaling. Mainly phys weapons. But even then, there's recipes and now masters to alleviate this issue entirely.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

BazzV5 wrote:

What is this "fighting chance" that non-traders are lacking?

Level 100 is surely out of the question for solo self found but 90+ is pretty straight forward.

you just answered yourself.
but level 100 isn't out of question if your name is Anuhart and you put over seven thousand hours into the game, since Open Beta.

The odd person has solo'ed to 100 in the past but so what? You want everyone to be able to achieve that goal? Is that it?

"

johnKeys wrote:

but I'm not talking about just leveling. mainly gear and content.

let the trade-tycoons flip a dozen 6-linked Shavs a day, every day. let them chain-farm face-tank Uber Atziri with their 1-billion-DPS-in-MF-Uber-mirrored-gear flavour-of-the-month builds, then sell Acuity Gloves in discount prices.

but does that mean a solo and/or self-found player should have a pretty damn high chance of never seeing one 6-linked Shavs or Acuity, no matter what he does?
never getting to open up a portal to Alluring Abyss, no matter what he does?
being forced to no-risk grind barrels in areas half his level, for that random Exalt or map because RNG screwed him again. and again. and again?

no.
hell no.

Before I go on, I must admit that I struggle to understand where you are coming from man.

Those items are not in any way needed to take on endgame content, (which is apparently beside the point), but are you saying that you, and every other player, should have equal access to the best items regardless if they trade or not?

I don't see how you could do that except making these types of items a quest reward or by massively increasing their drop rates. Yes devs could make a 6L Shav's a quest reward but I don't think there'd many who would really want that ease of access to the best game items.

And it's got nothing to do with teh economy but moreso that item rarity gives players a reason to keep on playing in that maybe one day they may be able to find, or trade, or be given, thanks Slurms :), a 6L Shav's.

Personally speaking, if I'd ticked off my wishlist of goals and achievements, I wouldn't be playing anymore.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Okay not to ruin your party but if you pay attention really closely to what you said, every single one of those mechanics clearly have to do with "MF" being the problem.

But I'm sure almost everyone who makes theses threads miss the problem completely as it comes out directly from their mouth.

MF isn't the problem. it's just a symptom of the disease.
and removing it in the current state of things, is basically cutting one more rope leading out of the "just stay in town and trade" pit.

look at the big picture, instead of focusing on minute details.
just like a Self-Found League with the current system left unchanged, would be a total fucking disaster, removing MF while keeping "one RNG to rule them all" - is wrong.

if GGG ever make a U-turn and decide this game is actually a loot-finder ARPG, which needs to smell and taste like a loot-finder ARPG, and introduce real progression and real risk/reward - then and only then we can deal with Magic Find.

How is it a symptom of the "disease", the entire drop rate system is balanced around the fact that I can get 10x the same loot you do killing the same boss with some extra numbers on my character.

You need to look at the big picture and understand that if you remove MF from the game you can rebalance the game with at least a "remote" sense of risk vs reward because risk vs reward is just like it was in D2. "How much MF can you stack on your character" while doing the hardest content you can the fastest.


I didn't "farm" bosses in D2, I stacked up as much MF humanly possible on a sorc that instantly tele to the room with as many players or /player command possible and killed him for the loots.

The "disease" isn't because it's balanced around "trade" or "the economy". It's because it copies the outdated loot system from D2 directly with the extremely outdated MF system. They didn't "add MF in" to "alleviate" the disease.

Also stop talking about "real loot-finder ARPG with real progression and real risk/reward" they hardly exist to begin with. At least it'll be similar along the lines of D2 medianxl and torchlight were the game isn't balanced around you stacking tons of MF.

As long as the game stays true to "wanting to be the next Diablo" it will never be the game you want.

"

TohtoriKuolema wrote:

I haven't even managed to get a single level 70 map yet and am running out of level 69 and 68 maps. Granted I don't craft them much, trans and go, but goddamn You dare to belittle the allmighty RNG.

Most players have no idea how deeply RNG can screw You if You play self found.

I've self-found maps from 66 to 78s in three leagues: Domination, Ambush and now Rampage. Mapping has never been so easy than it is currently. Spend some more alterations & aug on your maps to get either 30-40% or inhabitation mods: magic mobs, pack, rares, exiles. Also roll magic pack on irrelevant boxes inside the map, to get a chance for more maps. From 71s onward throw an alc on the good ones. From 74+ start chiseling, until you have 76+ pool, then dont chisel anything below 76.

I would even argue that mapping currently is slightly too easy. I'm stacked to the brim with maps and reluctantly pick up anything below 72 (stash space issues also)... I'll never be able to run all the maps I have. (so shoot me a PM, if you want some free maps)

Master made the gem playable for self found players.
It saved the game.


It would be nice if they gave us an option like self found league/mode
with account locked gear and no trading.


I am looking forward to farm act 4 :) boss with multiple accounts.
Dominus need a break.

A master that sell shavrone for 100,000 gifted uniques would be ok in my book.
Any mechanic to normalize rng without trades would be good on the long run.
Kills counters,unique shards,gifting masters one pick one.

@John, I'll tell you one secret - top players are playing the game, not flipping/playing trade-tycoon. A simple example is Havoc, did you see his previous league stash?

Sitting in town won't reach you lvl 100, playing the game will. Yes, and being a forum-warrior won't get you far either in terms of wealth or XP.

Sure, flippers are wealthy, but they're playing this game for different reasons - economy gives them a thrill, flipping can be very exciting. I've done that back in Runescape days with Ores, it's pretty awesome to own tens to hundreds of thousands ores at once, Santa hats, etc. But the downside part is that I wasn't experience the real game.

"

TohtoriKuolema wrote:

Really.

I haven't even managed to get a single level 70 map yet and am running out of level 69 and 68 maps. Granted I don't craft them much, trans and go, but goddamn You dare to belittle the allmighty RNG.

Most players have no idea how deeply RNG can screw You if You play self found.

You can't run out of 68-69 even by running them white, which is now what people do, because there's no need to waste currency on low map levels. Or just in case you are running low - drop in some Trans/Alts/Aug for that sexy pack size or magic monsters.

I've been a solo-player since OB and never had problems with progression to A3M or having a decent map pool, it's a matter of adaptation and use of knowledge.

Yet some prefer to put blame on something else, instead of taking a step backwards and taking a look at their decisions.