Save up forever for a crown of eyes. Get shit all over.

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kasub wrote:

That came to bite them back when they couldn't keep promises or completely contradicted an announcement.

Sounds like you are comparing feature changes to balance changes. Apples to oranges.

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Veruski wrote:

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kasub wrote:

That came to bite them back when they couldn't keep promises or completely contradicted an announcement.

Sounds like you are comparing feature changes to balance changes. Apples to oranges.

So? What if planned balance changes fail QA? Just backpedal and piss of thousand customers again? Man, I'd love to see the video-game project you would work on. You'd basically pay one guy post non-stop crap and handle a bunch of kids in a forum for basically only murder of your own reputation in the end. Good investment, worth the resources.

Everything you spilled so far sounds like a big, pessimistic dystopia. That's an achievement aswell, I guess.

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Veruski wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

lol, OP is just showing off his gear

you know good and well that losing PA is just a nerf in dps, and not a massive one either.

your out-of-touchness is showing. yes CoE needed to be nerfed, but to say it's not a massive nerf to his build is downright ignorant.

archer builds don't have access to inc spell damage rolls (as bows and quivers don't have them) -- pain attunement would be basically the only reason to use CoE as an archer.

i mean sure, you can get a piddly 25% or whatever on an amulet, but that's not much compared to the 72% you can get on shield/dagger, lol.

if he was running a dagger build, you would be correct. but his gear is quite easily visible and his weapon is quite obviously not a dagger..........his off hand is quite obviously not a shield........

or are you really implying a 30% "more" bonus to dps is not much of a bonus? if so, that's kinda sad XD

It just is not a massive nerf, i wasnt even using PA with my char for a long time cause i assumed it didnt work with COE and my clear speed was very high, now i got it, the tooltip says i do more dps, i dont notice anything in clear speed because i just 1 shot everything anyway.

I just dont give a crap about the nerf and i dont understand why everyone is over reacting, oh noes you lose a 30% more damage modifier, big fucking deal, you still 1 shot every mob.

CoE wasnt even designed for archers anyway, just buy a decent ES helm and youll get more survivability.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

They could change the numerical values easy on the other OP legacies just like they knocked granite flasks from 4000 to 3000 despite thousands out there, they just don't want to.

Making legacy Kaoms 500 life would be same thing as granite change.

No, it would not. The granite change was to the base item type. All such changes necessarily change all items of that type.
Changing Kaoms would be a change to the value of a specific mod on the item. This requires doing an item migration with a custom script, resulting in massive downtime while migrating every item on the realm.
The equivalent of the Granite change for Kaoms would be changing the base armour of Glorious Plates (which we could do, and would affect existing ones). Changing the value or a rolled mod is entirely different.

The base value of the Granite Flask type, like the base value of the armour rating on Glorious Plates, is stored in a lookup table which all items of that type point to, rather than all that data being duplicated by separately storing that information in each item of the type. Thus changing that data would only be a change in one place, and would always affect all items of the type.

By contrast, the value of the rolled unique mod on Kaom's Heart is stored in the specific item it was rolled on, like all other rolled mods. Because mods by their nature must support the ability for two instances to have different values. Thus changing this requires changing it separately on each item changed, and won't affect other items.

With Crown of Eyes, we did not change the value of a mod (which would have made old ones legacy), we changed the mechanic it uses to work differently - we effectively changed the game mechanic the item uses, not the item itself. Each item stores the mod it has, and it's value, neither of which changed. What that mod causes to happen changes, and that of course isn't something stored separately in each item, but in code that modifies calculations. This isn't the first time this has happened (Volls comes to mind), and it may not be the last.

Thanks for that post, Mark. It clarifies things 100% for me. I still dont agree in principle with nerfing items or item mechanics in the perma leagues because of lack of competition, limited resources and people should still be afforded full advertized utility for hard fought items they paid for no matter how easy or hard it is. It's clear GGG would like to nerf them all but technicalities prevent it. We'll just have to disagree on the nerfing and leave it at that. Appreciate your time.

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BurnedInEffigy wrote:

They already explained in another post why legacy items exist for mods with numeric ranges. The mod being nerfed on CoE is the same for all instances of the item, so it's not necessary to make it legacy.

Players should be glad when game balance is improved. If you're mad that you can't be overpowered after the patch, I'd say your priorities are off.

So you dont think they could have changed the spell damage mod, to say a 50% of spell damage mod, or whatever? that is what they are changing right, you better believe they could easily remake a new mechanic to fix this on new drops, and keep the old ones as is. They chose NOT to.


Im a bit torn on this decision, i did bust my butt to get mine, so if it does destroy my character now, i will be pissed, if it doesn't, then we will see.

Personally if they choose to have legacies, which im all for diversity, they need to stay consistent, and not just change there system on a whim.

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MasterAxe wrote:

Personally if they choose to have legacies, which im all for diversity, they need to stay consistent, and not just change there system on a whim.

For GGG, that's the soul of consistency. Why should they make an exception for CoE?

One of the uniques the one that affected build variety most was Crown of Eyes. While we had foreseen it being strong, it turned out the power of the multiplicative bonuses it could unlock together was far too powerful. In 1.2.0, Crown of Eyes (including existing ones) will only affect increased and reduced spell damage. It does not benefit from multiplicative bonuses any more.

http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/2d6xiv/eternal_and_diamond_supporter_newsletter_76/

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MasterAxe wrote:

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BurnedInEffigy wrote:

They already explained in another post why legacy items exist for mods with numeric ranges. The mod being nerfed on CoE is the same for all instances of the item, so it's not necessary to make it legacy.

Players should be glad when game balance is improved. If you're mad that you can't be overpowered after the patch, I'd say your priorities are off.

So you dont think they could have changed the spell damage mod, to say a 50% of spell damage mod, or whatever? that is what they are changing right, you better believe they could easily remake a new mechanic to fix this on new drops, and keep the old ones as is. They chose NOT to.


Im a bit torn on this decision, i did bust my butt to get mine, so if it does destroy my character now, i will be pissed, if it doesn't, then we will see.

Personally if they choose to have legacies, which im all for diversity, they need to stay consistent, and not just change there system on a whim.

The change you propose would also not create a legacy. CoEs mod does not have a numeric value, so if it does not have a numeric value you can't change it to 50%. So the likely change would be to change it to a new mod that has a fixed 50% value (because it is unlikely that this mod would be used often).

The only non-legacy option would be to create a new mod, that has a numeric property and create a new CoE that has this mod with the value of 50. But thats unnecessary complicated. CoE is like every change before. There just never was a decision to make or avoid legacy, the always took the easiest solution, in this case that is changing the mod-mechanic in other cases it would be changing the numeric value.

Personally I don't really care about it. I might even get a CoE now, because they most likely have a more reasonable price. I thought about a few possible builds for them, exspecially some not involving ST or daggers. I don't think it is an unreasonable nerf. The only reason to be unhappy about it would be for "financial" ones. Yes if you horded CoEs then you are screwed. If you just used it for your build... then gz it is still the BiS-item for basically any build that uses a weapon which relies on elemental damage and uses a weapon that can roll spell-damage. And hey, maybe with crafting you can get Spelldamage on Quivers :P than you can even use it with a bow.

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Personally if they choose to have legacies, which im all for diversity, they need to stay consistent, and not just change there system on a whim.

Actually this is fairly consistent. There were legacy changes before whenever a numeric value in a mod (that allows one) changed like Kaoms, the other Kaoms or Shavs and all the IIQ-items and there were mod-changes before to fix bugs like Vertex (which most likely had the same mod as the Reduced Mana Gem instead of Reduced Skill-Cost) or to improve items like Volls. And I'm fairly certain that they will stay consistent to this in the future. Avoiding legacies at all costs just doesn't seem to be worth it to them. Maybe they will get rid of them at some point if they notice a fairly different game, since there might be a certain point when a collection of uniques just makes the game entirely different because they are legacy. Also you would have to ban legacies from PvP events, because it is a rather unfair advantage, since they are terribly hard to come by, but right now there isn't a real reason to avoid legacies, because basically everyone place in his own world.

Read again what Chris has been saying. The nerfs are not the only changes that will be made, there are ingame mechanics being changed along with the nerfs.

I Certainly can smell that CoE is not going to buff Wrath and Anger anymore, besides not accepting PA and RF. That is exactly what was also OP about CoE actually. The spell damage of PA also buffed retroactively Wrath and Anger. Meaning that you will still be OP as hell if that is allowed to happen if you equip enough spell damage on gear + passives, and that is wrong because it was not intended.

Funny thing is that most people owns a CoE but they are not really aware of the broken mechanics and what it exactly does, wich is completely out of measure.

CoE was a complete "beta" released item. It was too wide on both accepting input from too many sources and delivering output to too many places.

GGG didn't take care on thinking deeply about how to limit the hat and it went totally out of control, and in my oppinion that partly ruined the SoTV experience for many players. The impact that this hat has imprinted on the current meta is deadlier than you think.

It basically ruined the balance of the game and reduced the meta to a single skill / build as the absolute dominator, ruining also the build diversity philosophy of the game, not to mention the prices hyperinflation and the RMT encouraging. That was a big mistake, and i hope they will be much more careful from now on when releasing a potentially OP item. Powerful items are nice to exist, they are fun and it's cool to get to own them. But to keep the game healthy they must think twice and test before releasing imho.

Changing the numeric value of an item mod is adjusting, balancing, AKA Shavs, Khaoms ( ES and Life )

Changing the mechanic of an item is fixing, correcting a broken thing, AKA CoE, Vertex (Broken, uncarefully coded mechanics )