How much? Offer

This whole topic is emotionally charged.

There's really 2 camps...

1) Those who want to barter.

2) Those who want to go in to a store, and see a fixed price.

And both camps really dislike the way the other camp wants to run things.

It's like smoking. Smokers already know exactly how damaging, and stupid the act of smoking is. They don't need to hear it every time they light up. They know. So really... just leave them alone.

Just like those who want to never set buy outs. As silly and damaging as that may seem to others, just leave them alone. Let them do it.

Just identify on XYZ setting up a buyout + online - and then only use that list. Turn off your trade channel as entirely useless OR keep it on but never engage someone who is "WTS item" with no price. If everyone does this, then those individuals will have 2 choices: 1) never sell an item or 2) change their method of selling to include buy out prices.

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Isbox1 wrote:

1) Those who want to barter.

2) Those who want to go in to a store, and see a fixed price.

BOTH camps are better off actually stating a price though. If they want to negotiate from there, great, but at least set a starting point.

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Hodari wrote:

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Isbox1 wrote:

1) Those who want to barter.

2) Those who want to go in to a store, and see a fixed price.

BOTH camps are better off actually stating a price though. If they want to negotiate from there, great, but at least set a starting point.

That.

There is no reason other than I want to see if I can rip you off first for the seller to not set a price point up front. End of story.

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Antnee wrote:

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Hodari wrote:

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Isbox1 wrote:

1) Those who want to barter.

2) Those who want to go in to a store, and see a fixed price.

BOTH camps are better off actually stating a price though. If they want to negotiate from there, great, but at least set a starting point.

That.

There is no reason other than I want to see if I can rip you off first for the seller to not set a price point up front. End of story.

Yes.
No-b/o-sellers, when I ask you for a price, it's more to determine whether you are a reasonable person to trade with. By not listing one, you've already committed to a discussion about it, so when asked for a price, either give a price a little higher than you want to take or tell me your non-negotiable price the market will bear. Don't say 9 EX for a 2ish EX item, or I walk. And if you are going to say "offer" after I've asked you to give me a price, when I give you a competitive offer, freaking take it. It's not that I won't play that game, but I expect that you'll honor a good price if I name it. If you dig for a little more, your demand that I open with my price was either to try to get me to over-offer or you are just nickel-and-diming me now. If you knew what you wanted, you should have said so; if you didn't, how have you decided now that I need to pay just a little more? Either way, I'm out.

And while we're on the topic, let's flip things around. If you are a buyer and you want a great deal, find those without b/o prices to bother. Don't offer 50-75% of my listed price if mine is already the the cheapest. Go talk to the folks that did not bother to list a price; they are the ones who want to wheel and deal with you. (Good luck.) If my price is out of date, say so, and I'll go look; I'll probably lower my price if you are right.

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SirDragos wrote:

Don't offer 50-75% of my listed price if mine is already the the cheapest.

Poe.xyz.is lists the prices at which items have not been sold, not the prices at which items are sold.

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mazul wrote:

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SirDragos wrote:

Don't offer 50-75% of my listed price if mine is already the the cheapest.

Poe.xyz.is lists the prices at which items have not been sold, not the prices at which items are sold.

Right, so wait until tomorrow when someone will undercut me if I'm actually wrong. However, if I'm the cheapest, every priced item below me has been sold. I am pricing my items against what you can pay down the block. That is really the only criterion that matters with the large seller base that we have.

Now, you do have a point when it comes to unusual rares or brand new uniques after a patch (rather than uniques during other times or even items like a weapon with a defined dps). I suppose that I can imagine a scenario, for example, where I have a weird ring with a combination of stats that are simply absent in other places. In this instance, I could see someone making a low offer that might be reasonable. However, if someone needs this rarest of items, they are not going to quibble too much about the price, unless I'm being seriously unreasonable. And if I'm being that unreasonable, why are you bothering to try to trade with me?

Again, you can always take your offer to the no-b/o-sellers.

When I ask someone about the price of his item and he replies with "offer" I already know that it probably won't come to trade. Those guys just wait for some inexperienced players that vastly overestimate the value of the item. That's why I actually don't bother anymore with shops that do not have a buyout tag.

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SirDragos wrote:

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mazul wrote:

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SirDragos wrote:

Don't offer 50-75% of my listed price if mine is already the the cheapest.

Poe.xyz.is lists the prices at which items have not been sold, not the prices at which items are sold.

Right, so wait until tomorrow when someone will undercut me if I'm actually wrong. However, if I'm the cheapest, every priced item below me has been sold. I am pricing my items against what you can pay down the block. That is really the only criterion that matters with the large seller base that we have.

Now, you do have a point when it comes to unusual rares or brand new uniques after a patch (rather than uniques during other times or even items like a weapon with a defined dps). I suppose that I can imagine a scenario, for example, where I have a weird ring with a combination of stats that are simply absent in other places. In this instance, I could see someone making a low offer that might be reasonable. However, if someone needs this rarest of items, they are not going to quibble too much about the price, unless I'm being seriously unreasonable. And if I'm being that unreasonable, why are you bothering to try to trade with me?

Again, you can always take your offer to the no-b/o-sellers.

Of course one first consults the no-b/o sellers, but once one gets an idea of what the lowest price a no-b/o seller is willing to sell his for, one checks with the b/o-sellers to see if any of them can go lower than that no-b/o seller.

It is all common market sense.

75% of a b/o is a serious offer even if that b/o is the lowest listed, for the reason that the b/o person is competing with non-b/o sellers as well.

I've seen multiple cases where all listed b/os are above market value. For instance with goldrims at multiple points in the Nemesis market.

Edit: The reason for why there can be a significant difference between actual market value and the lowest listed b/o, is because very few people can be bothered to constantly update their b/os and when they set their b/os they compare to the other b/os. The travel towards the actual market value can thus be very slow.

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mazul wrote:

Of course one first consults the no-b/o sellers, but once one gets an idea of what the lowest price a no-b/o seller is willing to sell his for, one checks with the b/o-sellers to see if any of them can go lower than that no-b/o seller.

It is all common market sense.

75% of a b/o is a serious offer even if that b/o is the lowest listed, for the reason that the b/o person is competing with non-b/o sellers as well.

I've seen multiple cases where all listed b/os are above market value. For instance with goldrims at multiple points in the Nemesis market.

Edit: The reason for why there can be a significant difference between actual market value and the lowest listed b/o, is because very few people can be bothered to constantly update their b/os and when they set their b/os they compare to the other b/os. The travel towards the actual market value can thus be very slow.

Here's the thing. When someone comes to me with a 75% offer on my listed, cheapest xyz price, if I don't specifically KNOW I can sell an item cheaper (i.e. a 5L unique chest where I just sold two other copies at the same price after I went on a 6L hunt), I will ask them why they think my price is unreasonable. I have received a variety of answers, but maybe only 1 in 50 or so will say anything close to what you are talking about. If they say, "@othertraderguy says he will sell his for X price and I was wondering if you would beat it," I would take them seriously. However, that is not what happens. What I usually get is the same story about "I don't have enough" or "I just tried to 5L my chest and spent 3476 fuses on it, so you should feel bad and give me a discount." These excuses are both almost certainly untrue. They are both really not good reasons for me to give out a discount.

I'm not against giving out a discount to people that make reasoned arguments and are up front with trade info, but people do not trade like that. I'm assuming that you would be able to articulate the difference to me if you were buying, but I assure you that this is not what happens in all but the most unusual case.

Now, for me, it's usually going to be "thanks, but no thanks," on a low bid. This is because I do maintain an updated shop and lower my prices on old items regularly. I've got a solid handle on the what I can get for things, and I'm rarely scrambling for extra currency to buy something, so I rarely accept them. However, when I do, I insist that the buyer give me a reason, even if it is not something they can prove, in order to make the trade. You can make a point about how you think the real market price of an item is lower than my lowest listed, but you've got to actually tell me that and tell me why. Does that really seem out of line?

Edit: You've described an example of research that just does not happen. Most of the folks I deal with found my lowest price and contacted me with a low offer. Zero research went into it. Or else they are not willing to share it. Either way, they should get lost. Your arguments make perfect sense if you put in the work, but I'm talking to those 49 in 50 that don't.

Did a small test in the weekend. Trying to see what people will offer for 3 Sacrifice set. I said I didnt play the game for awhile so not sure the market price. Guess what people offer?

5c a set...and he kept sending me invite and keep saying this is the right market price. bla blaa bla. And there have others offering way lower than what i expected.

A guy offering 1ex a set but I told him it is too much and sold him 2ex for the 3 set :P

Then I put the price on (2ex) and sold to another 3 people :P