Vaal Gems - Half-Assed Design

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DirkAustin wrote:

I like them the way they are but all in all any suggestion is about releasing more than once or twice the effect of the vaal gems per instance which was their intended use obviously.

Wrong.
This suggestion isn't about Vaal Skill usage frequency.
It's about the CONDITIONS in which you can use Vaal Skills.

Currently it's gimmicky.
You have to kill WITHOUT the Vaal Skill before you can use it.
But if you kill without it, why do you even need the fucking Vaal Skill? Waste of gem slots!

So the Vaal Skill charging NEEDS to be through skill use/damage/hit/crit/etc.
There are plenty of balanced, build-flavoured ways in which GGG can do it.

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Nurvus wrote:

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DirkAustin wrote:

I like them the way they are but all in all any suggestion is about releasing more than once or twice the effect of the vaal gems per instance which was their intended use obviously.

Wrong.
This suggestion isn't about Vaal Skill usage frequency.
It's about the CONDITIONS in which you can use Vaal Skills.

Currently it's gimmicky.
You have to kill WITHOUT the Vaal Skill before you can use it.
But if you kill without it, why do you even need the fucking Vaal Skill? Waste of gem slots!

So the Vaal Skill charging NEEDS to be through skill use/damage/hit/crit/etc.
There are plenty of balanced, build-flavoured ways in which GGG can do it.

Exactly why Vaal gems are useless pieces of shit.

I'd rather use a CWDT/CWS setup or have more utility gems than use any Vaal gem. It's just more efficient.

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Natharias wrote:

Exactly why Vaal gems are useless pieces of shit.

Vaal gems aren't shit.
The current Soul Generation is.

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Natharias wrote:

I'd rather use a CWDT/CWS setup or have more utility gems than use any Vaal gem. It's just more efficient.

True, but that's because of Soul Generation.
Trigger gems themselves do NOT offer better gameplay than Vaal Gems - you're playing by not playing.

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Nurvus wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

Exactly why Vaal gems are useless pieces of shit.

Vaal gems aren't shit.
The current Soul Generation is.

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Natharias wrote:

I'd rather use a CWDT/CWS setup or have more utility gems than use any Vaal gem. It's just more efficient.

True, but that's because of Soul Generation.
Trigger gems themselves do NOT offer better gameplay than Vaal Gems - you're playing by not playing.

So generating souls to use a skill doesn't make it shit?

The method to use something is also considered part of the skill. So if the method to use it sucks, the skill sucks.

I also never said proc gems offered better gameplay. They simply make some builds stronger, and those that don't need them or use them can use more utility skills.

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Natharias wrote:

So generating souls to use a skill doesn't make it shit?

The method to use something is also considered part of the skill. So if the method to use it sucks, the skill sucks.

I also never said proc gems offered better gameplay. They simply make some builds stronger, and those that don't need them or use them can use more utility skills.

You should read properly what you reply to - in particular its CONTEXT - before you come up with completely unrelated replies like that...

You said Vaal Skills suck, and rather they don't exist.
I said it's only the WAY you CURRENTLY generate souls that sucks and explained WHY.
Now you're trying to make it look like what I said concludes that soul generation itself (in any form) makes Vaal Skills suck? Oh. My. God. It's like talking to a deaf person.
I'll answer you anyway...

Your problem is identifying the problem.
When you say "The method to use something is also considered part of the skill. So if the method to use it sucks, the skill sucks." you are referring to "Soul Generation in general" as the method.
But you're wrong - the method is "Soul Generation THROUGH KILLS".
So it's not the method of generating souls in general that sucks.
It's the ONE that GGG implemented = generating souls from KILLS only. Get it now? Hmm?

If you can generate Souls from dealing damage, for example, EVERYTHING changes about Vaal Skills.

CURRENTLY, you must actually KILL enemies with your other skills BEFORE you can use the Vaal Skill.
This makes it so that the Vaal Skill is NOT actually needed - since you need to be able to kill without it - and just serves as "eye candy" to "clean up the trash".
You also rarely use Vaal Skills against bosses because of losing souls during loading, etc.

If Souls are generated from dealing damage, etc, you don't actually need to kill ANYTHING to use the Vaal Skill.
You may simply soften enemies up and generate enough Souls to then finish everything off WITH the Vaal Skill.
It creates sort of a "combo" gameplay, and those that don't like Vaal Skills - like you - don't use them, while those that like the concept can use them EFFECTIVELY.

This so damn much.

I have a feeling that other societies we haven't yet met also have their own interpretation of ultimate skills, and that in time, we'll see other mechanisms as we get to know these other people.

Therefore, I recommend Vaal skills stay, and stay much as they are; and any other alternate mechanisms be done in a future expansion.

Since you can only have so many skill gems socketed at any given time, giving us lots of choices, and making us pick, is cool.

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DirkAustin wrote:

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Nurvus wrote:

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DirkAustin wrote:

I like them the way they are but all in all any suggestion is about releasing more than once or twice the effect of the vaal gems per instance which was their intended use obviously.

Wrong.
This suggestion isn't about Vaal Skill usage frequency.
It's about the CONDITIONS in which you can use Vaal Skills.

Currently it's gimmicky.
You have to kill WITHOUT the Vaal Skill before you can use it.
But if you kill without it, why do you even need the fucking Vaal Skill? Waste of gem slots!

So the Vaal Skill charging NEEDS to be through skill use/damage/hit/crit/etc.
There are plenty of balanced, build-flavoured ways in which GGG can do it.

Not really. Theyre supposed to be gimmicky as you put it and theyre supposed to fill a slot. If you would kill with the vaal skill you would use that instead of anything else and therefore many if not all players would just put on 1 vaal skill and faceroll the game with that, killing with it and then unleashing its effect once charges are reached.

I like it the way they work, my HC ST templar makes good use of vaal cold snap for example.

The only thing that needs to change is how some of them dont have enough uses stored up.

So smartness. Very intelligence!
Tell me, genious - in that little example of yours, how would "all players" that "just put on 1 vaal skill and faceroll the game with that" generate the Souls to begin with?
I mean, considering Vaal Skills can only be used with Souls.

Figured it out? No?
I'll help you - you still need to use other skills.
You just don't need to be able to KILL EVERYTHING with those other skills.

So here's an example of what I'm suggesting:
You can have a defensively supported skill (life on hit, life leech, stun, freeze, etc) so you can stay alive long enough to charge your Souls, and then unleash the Vaal Skill(s).

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Nurvus wrote:

You should read properly what you reply to - in particular its CONTEXT - before you come up with completely unrelated replies like that...

Really? I wonder how you think it's off topic. Perhaps its more that you simply wish to argue and cannot other than trying to claim it's off topic.

I suggest you get in line and drop the shit.

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Nurvus wrote:

You said Vaal Skills suck, and rather they don't exist.

As you said, you should understand the context. I've always said something along these lines:

"Vaal gems suck because they aren't reliable."

If you can't understand why or the context of what I'm saying, then you should just stop posting. It's not that hard to understand and definitely not that hard to understand that it is relevant to the topic.

I have never once said that I wish Vaal gems had never existed.

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Nurvus wrote:

I said it's only the WAY you CURRENTLY generate souls that sucks and explained WHY.
Now you're trying to make it look like what I said concludes that soul generation itself (in any form) makes Vaal Skills suck? Oh. My. God. It's like talking to a deaf person.
I'll answer you anyway...

I never said soul generation in any form. Again, understand the context, as you said. I say soul generation sucks because I'm talking about the current method. If soul generation was done from another stand point, it might not suck.

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Nurvus wrote:

Your problem is identifying the problem.

No. My problem is people like you just trying to argue on the forums. I post one little thing and at least one person throws a hissy fit.

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Nurvus wrote:

When you say "The method to use something is also considered part of the skill. So if the method to use it sucks, the skill sucks." you are referring to "Soul Generation in general" as the method.
But you're wrong - the method is "Soul Generation THROUGH KILLS".

Which is what I mean by soul generation. How can I be wrong? Do you want me to specifically say "generating souls through kills" every fucking time?

No. That's like saying I have to use a shield and a weapon to use Shield Charge every single time I talk about Shield Charge. It's easier to simply already know what Shield Charge is and simply use the two words the skill is named. (Yes, this is an example. I didn't think I would have to put this but you'll likely try to use this to twist the conversation further off topic.

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Nurvus wrote:

CURRENTLY, you must actually KILL enemies with your other skills BEFORE you can use the Vaal Skill.
This makes it so that the Vaal Skill is NOT actually needed - since you need to be able to kill without it - and just serves as "eye candy" to "clean up the trash".
You also rarely use Vaal Skills against bosses because of losing souls during loading, etc.

...which is what makes them useless? Vaal gems are useless because you require another skill to obtain the kills to use Vaal gems. Therefor, there is no reason to stop using your killing skill to use a Vaal gem once.

As to bosses, some of them do not have any trash to farm souls to use Vaal gems repeatedly against bosses, and some that do, do not have enough coming at a fast enough rate to be useful.

The example I love to use is Vaal Detonate Dead. I want to clear all of the bodies from the room but the skill is useless. Bone/Flesh Offering with Faster Casting do an infinitely better job and can be used at all times.

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Nurvus wrote:

If Souls are generated from dealing damage, etc, you don't actually need to kill ANYTHING to use the Vaal Skill.
You may simply soften enemies up and generate enough Souls to then finish everything off WITH the Vaal Skill.

But you still need a non-Vaal skill to deal damage. It's avoiding the problem.

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Nurvus wrote:

It creates sort of a "combo" gameplay, and those that don't like Vaal Skills - like you - don't use them, while those that like the concept can use them EFFECTIVELY.

If there was an incentive to use Vaal gems, I'd use them. But again, why have them if you can so rarely use them?

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Nurvus wrote:

I love caps lock

Try dropping caps. It doesn't do anything beneficial for you.