Speedy Puncture + Pierce Split Arrow / Reflect Safe or Glass Cannon / Level 100 & Uber Atziri Farmer

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Ceryneian wrote:

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j0zef wrote:

Math behind using Vuln vs. Crit weakness?

Yes this would be intersting. Vulnerability double dips the dot: increases size of physical hit - which increase both hit and dot damage, then increases dot damage further. Although Crit Weakness gives a juicy MORE damage boost to your physical hit - which will also increase the dot.

Someone can run the numbers but if you look at the dot damage - I think Vulnerability will give the greatest increase, if you are only looking at the initial hit then yeah Crit Weakness will give the greatest damage.

You can also throw in Projectile Weakness to compare as well, as the -x% to enemy evasion against the projectile will significantly boost crit CHANCE.

I'm too lazy to run the numbers right now but my guestimate is for DOT damage:

Vuln > Crit Weakness > Projectile Weakness

Obviously a lot has to do with your crit mult, crit chance, and chance to hit - so I would not be surprised if some combination of those variables leads to Crit/Proj Weakness giving someone higher damage increase than Vuln.

Yep. Another thing to note is that with curse on hit, the curse is applied after the initial hit (not 110% on that though). This means if you attack a target only once, vuln will still come into effect with the increased degen and crit weakness won't do anything until you follow up with more hits.

Here's a comparison between 20/20 vuln and crit weakness





Let's assume:

3,000 physical damage
650 crit multiplier
the target is stationary taking 25% of the initial hit per second



Critical Weakness:

79% more extra damage from crits
10% increased curse effect from curse on hit

79% * 1.1 = 87%
650 * 1.87 = 1,216
3,000 * 12.16 = 36,480
36,480 * .25 = 9,120

Initial hit: 36,480
Bleed per second: 9,120



Vulnerability:

44% increased physical damage
40% increased damage over time
10% increased curse effect from curse on hit

44% * 1.1 = 48%
40% * 1.1 = 44%

Assuming a character already has 200% increased physical damage from passives/ect

The characters very initial hit is roughly 670, accounting 200% increased phys damage and *1.49 from PPAD. The math on that:

670 * 3 = 2,010
2,010 * 1.49 = 2,995 (close enough to round to 3,000)

Vuln changes our increased from 200% to 244%, so:

670 * 3.44 = 2,305
2,305 * 1.49 = 3,434.45
3,434 * 6.5 = 22,324
22,324 * .25 = 8,037

Initial hit: 22,324
Bleed per second: 8,037

But for curse on hit's sake, crit weakness does nothing on the first hit, and vuln does.

PS I know I made a mistake in the math, not adding the multiplier by +1, but couldn't be bothered to change it because the results are very similar either way.

PSS 1 thing I'm not sure about is if vuln's increased phys is actually a multiplier, because it's the target taking the increased physical %, not your character. So I could have done vuln totally wrong and vuln could be way better on paper as well, hrmmmmm

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Precaso wrote:

PSS 1 thing I'm not sure about is if vuln's increased phys is actually a multiplier, because it's the target taking the increased physical %, not your character. So I could have done vuln totally wrong and vuln could be way better on paper as well, hrmmmmm

Yes, I think the vuln increased phys applies to the mob receiving damage, not to your damage, because it says "Cursed enemies take x% increased Physical damage" - so the increase is actually a multiplier. In that case vuln will come out higher I think for damage in your calculations.

You forgot the ~10% extra crit chance from crit weakness in your calcs.

Here are some other factors to consider though -
1)Yes, CW comes into effect one hit after Vuln. It's not that big of a deal due to the player usually spamming shots - @ 3 aps, that's a delay of .3 seconds between curse application
2) Since Puncture is used a single target DPS, I don't think it's necessary at all to keep it on a 6L. Curses have pretty fast cast speed already, what if instead of Curse on Hit+curse you manual curse targets w Curse+Faster Cast? It becomes a slightly more involved gameplay, but you don't need 2 6Ls and the effect is virtually identical - esp since curse on hit doesn't apply 100% of the time.
3) The extra crit chance from CW will make your damage more consistent. This one is a biggie to me. Even if CW was ~10-15% less DPS, I'd still choose it due to the consistency factor.

I'm leveling a ranger based on your build, so I'm definitely interested in seeing what's best - CoH+Vuln, CoH+CW or self cast CW.

Very nice build btw :)

Three questions from a semi-noob who is very interested in this build.

1. Roughly how much would a Harbinger Bow with high crit costs for a 5L & a 6L (Ballpark) to see if I should just go another route (Windripper)

2. I really like using Frenzy for Single Target DPS, if I chose to go for that instead of Puncture is there anything you would do different in the passive tree?

3. Would it be too much of a DPS loss to have Blood Magic support gems with my SA & Frenzy? Or is there more than enough mana with this build (with auras included)?

Really enjoying this build, i made a new character a few days ago, currently just got to maps and destroying stuff. Im using a really shitty bow that I got for free (will purchase a 300 pdps one after the league ends). I got drillneck today and it gave me like 25% more damage than my other quiver, really sick.

I've played split arrow before but I was elemental and using BM gem, so straight away i had lost 3 support gems (BM, LL, Chain) compared to this build. Its really incredible that this can run on mana no problem. Will play this build next league, hopefully it doesn't get changed too much and hopefully the quiver is in the game permanently. Thanks for sharing your build :):

Have you thought about running a lmp/gmp pierce puncture for maps? According to my calculations, if you used something like enduring cry or a bit of fire damage on gear to get enemies to move, you should be able to 1 or 2 shot a 78 pack with puncture (from the data I've seen 78 mobs have about 8k hp)

I realy like your build and i was wondering is it hardcore viable with those reflect precautions (without god gloves), or is there still to much risk of killing yourself with reflect. And could you tell me how many times did u die because of reflect?

One thing you might try is swapping out Curse on Hit + Vulnerability in your Puncture link for Point Blank + Trap -- that'll get you ~80% more damage on both the hit and the resulting degen. Then you can stick with Crit Weakness for consistency or hardcast Vulnerability for an even bigger multiplier.