The next thing that needs to be redesigned for the sake of balance

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

One of the main benefits of making the impact of each resistance point less sharp is that there would be more room within that acceptable drawback space, which in turn would make resistance-based itemization choices more interesting.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

**Immortal Flesh, the sexiest of belts, could actually become map viable.**

You've convinced me fine sir.

On a somewhat related note, I usually have to trade for specific resistances to cap new characters, due to them not being able to use whatever resistance gear I bought for my other 10 characters. I don't mind trading - I actually really like buying uniques - I just don't really support the idea that itemization is fun beyond "This thing will enable me to do (X), which'll be awesome". Big fan of anything that makes gear choice more awesome-centric.

On the topic of the thread: I'd really like them to revise how chaos damage is handled, both incoming and outgoing. Basically, it's to hard to spec into it from either an offensive or defensive standpoint, and the "novelty" of having a difficult to spec into damage type isn't worth the limitations it places, on hybrids, casters, general gearing, chaos builds (i.e. Viper Strike), etc...

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I honestly believe this is a situation where you've managed to identify a problem, and then fell in love with the first potential solution which popped into your head, without actually taking time to consider the drawbacks. Your hatred of the old blinds you to what would no doubt be a hatred of the new, if it was to be implemented. Do you really want even more things to endlessly stack in this game?

You're attributing more emotional context to me than is warranted :D.

Also, I reiterate that I like your solution better in terms of practical application, but I just don't like to see cusps in design. Broken builds come out of cusps.

I also don't like "maximize this convex function defined on an interval" type of optimization problems. The ideal is always at one end of the interval or the other. It's boring to figure out where you should be, though ofc not necessarily boring to get there.

Something close to the curve I'm suggesting is hardly endless stacking -- there's a hard cap, it's just not reachable (horizontal asymptote). Furthermore, such a curve would have increasing marginal returns (like we have now) up to a point, and then falling marginal returns past there, with the returns becoming increasingly poorer. (The function is convex until x=0, and then concave past there; there can then be tradeoffs between taking more life or taking more resists.)



^ Again, just for reference, I'm thinking something like the 75% resist now being around the x=0.4 point above. You can do a bit better than that, but not much, and it would cost a ton. But, if you fell below that 0.4 point a bit, you're not going to be severely punished for it. If you go below x=0, though (probably x=0.2, tbh), you're really going to feel it.

The idea being that you won't get much (barely any benefit) for stacking beyond a certain soft cap, but that the cap itself is less sharp; a build isn't going to get wrecked because it falls a couple of points short, but there's a critical amount of resistance that would be important to get.

Of armor and evasion, this is closer to the evasion damage mechanic that becomes punishing at higher levels because of the 0.8 exponent falloff.

This isn't a serious suggestion for PoE at this point, but I'd prefer to see more curves like that, and fewer ugly cusps like

.


(I have complaints about armor/evasion in this game, too, but they mostly center around Iron Reflexes and the absurd amount of armor/evasion that can be generated from grace and flasks. Granite/Jade flasks dwarf the contribution coming from gear -- I don't care for that. If they're meant to be panic-mode defenses, then granites/jades entangle the mechanism that's meant to determine mitigation from gear with temporary mitigation. Also, immortal call is silly.)

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I wouldn't call resistance itemization thoughtless, either, especially when one considers being slightly below the resistance cap as a possible acceptable drawback of an item. I ran maps for a long time with my Ambush character at 73 Cold before I eventually itemized out of it. Which brings me to my next point...

I like the idea of that being a drawback, but I expect that sort of situation to happen infrequently. While 73% isn't going to be a terrible problem, going down to, say, 65%, is a huge difference.

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Being one, two... maybe up to 5 percentage points short of a resistance cap in this game is currently an acceptable and interesting drawback (although taking 20% more damage of one element is admittedly pushing it). Going past that is borderline suicidal. One of the main benefits of making the impact of each resistance point less sharp is that there would be more room within that acceptable drawback space, which in turn would make resistance-based itemization choices more interesting.

I won't argue with what I agree with. :)

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CookieVortex wrote:

It's much easier to face elemental reflect than physical. It's so easy to get 85%+ mitigation against elemental reflect. Now let's talk about hard physical crits for 3k+, show me how to mitigate 85% of these. Only 32k armour required so easy for ES char...

Not even talking about real crits for 10k, you can't even get close to 85%.

Has it crossed your mind that the physical and elemental damage output from monsters are tuned with the mitigation in mind?

Anyhow, for physical damage you have evasion, dodge, block, armor and endurance charges. The biggest physical hits in the game are also somehow easy do hard dodge.

I think one "easy to implement" fix that won't require retuning every damn thing in the game would be to simply:

- Cut the max elemental resist to 50%,

- Cut all elemental reducing effects by half or so.

- Double all max elemental resist effects (or simply make them a "less X elemental damage received effect).

- Reduce all elemental damage so that a player at 54% resist ends up taking the same amount of damage as a player at 77%.

- While you're at it reduce over-the-top elemental damage so it's no longer stupid.

- Maybe reduce player's spell-based elemental damage slightly, but I feel it would be balanced simply by reducing resist reduction effects.


Overall effect would be no change to elemental damage in cases where it works currently, but the penalty for being 10% under cap would not be nearly as harsh, and the benefits for being 10% over cap would not be nearly as great.

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milksmilk wrote:

If there only was a skill that could mitigate all the physical damage you take the game would be balanced...

Spoiler

/thread

Sure, Immortal call is an issue, in the sense that it makes content far too facerollable, if it is too convenient and effective to use.

My thoughts on it from a previous post in this thread:


"The only problem I see with physical damage reduction is with Immortal Call. If "immunity" to physical damage is going to be a thing in PoE, it needs to be designed such that through the majority of a boss fight, it won't nullify the physical damage. That can be tweaked though without touching the physical damage mitigation formula."

Am always ready for a good ol public execution !

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syrioforel wrote:

I also don't like "maximize this convex function defined on an interval" type of optimization problems. The ideal is always at one end of the interval or the other. It's boring to figure out where you should be, though ofc not necessarily boring to get there.

That's not the design intent*. We all know capped resists are going to be better than non-capped within the limited context of resistances. But when evaluating any particular gearset for wear, one version might have some advantages but not quite meet cap. You then have to evaluate if that is worth that to you or not.

You can tell this because resistances are suffixes on gear. For defensive gear, all of the important affixes are always prefixes. GGG knows that resistances are just something you're trying to mix and match in order to cap, and that's why resistances never directly compete with life or any of the other stackables.

*I know this is a bit of a digression, but: I've noticed the difference between prefixes and suffixes for a while, but I can't help but believe it was mostly accident on GGG's part (and thus, while good design, perhaps not intended). For example, I have no idea why Mana was a prefix back in beta, although now it makes sense due to Mind over Matter (were they planning that far ahead?), and I personally would have made all the good attack-damage options for weapons prefixes (along with Mana), much as we do now, but also made all of the good spell-damage options suffixes, so you could have a weapon which is good at both (and then nerf CoC to compensate if necessary).

@gilrad: Your third point completely negates your first in terms of what you're trying to accomplish.

Howbout remove IIR and Legacy IIQ stats with resist stats and +max resist stats.

how about remove all gear from the gam, all mobs, all bosses, and just implement "I WIN" button that you can spam ?