The next thing that needs to be redesigned for the sake of balance

Can someone remake or tweak sweep?

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H4NS wrote:

Reflect is not a broken mechanic, btw

No, it's not. But reflect is a big enemy to build diversity.

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H4NS wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Romira's Banquet + Voll's Protector + Voll's Devotion, and IC linked to CoC. This is enough to easily keep IC up indefinetely. Probably, ST will be the best there, but other skills are possible too.
Surgeon flasks + decent amount of crit + BiS crit dagger (typical requirements for CI dagger build).
Auras - 3 "purities", you can easily keep up all of them.
Sources of max resists - Flasks + witch flask nodes (13%), Saffel's Frame shield (4%), Elemental Adaptation (2%), Purity auras with + 50% aura effect (6%). 25% total = invulnerability to elemental damage.
Belt with increase flask charges gain/duration (Magnate or proper rare).

I think, the remaining job to complete the build is just details, and you can make it yourself easily. I'm just too lazy to do everything for you.

I don't see any build here, just theorycrafting;

Romira's Banquet makes you "lose" power charges, not "expire" or "consume".

This "CI" attempt also has a shitty chest, amulet and ring. It also has no main skill at all

[Post Edited by Support]

check my sig, the build in question is one i made a while ago and it does indeed prove max resists and immortal call are broken. i suggest they make max resists cap out at like 95% or something to prevent this. and immortal call probably shouldn't give invulnerability, but rather huge damage mitigation or regen

POE is extremely volatile, and has harsh death penalties. Compared to similar games, it seems the HP/DPS ratio is unbalanced. For example, you don't take any damage for an entire map, and splat/dead on the boss. There really are no long battles in POE.

IMO they should double player/monster HP and see if the damage formula makes for real fights and harness the skill of the player more.

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TheEnforcer wrote:

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H4NS wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Romira's Banquet + Voll's Protector + Voll's Devotion, and IC linked to CoC. This is enough to easily keep IC up indefinetely. Probably, ST will be the best there, but other skills are possible too.
Surgeon flasks + decent amount of crit + BiS crit dagger (typical requirements for CI dagger build).
Auras - 3 "purities", you can easily keep up all of them.
Sources of max resists - Flasks + witch flask nodes (13%), Saffel's Frame shield (4%), Elemental Adaptation (2%), Purity auras with + 50% aura effect (6%). 25% total = invulnerability to elemental damage.
Belt with increase flask charges gain/duration (Magnate or proper rare).

I think, the remaining job to complete the build is just details, and you can make it yourself easily. I'm just too lazy to do everything for you.

I don't see any build here, just theorycrafting;

Romira's Banquet makes you "lose" power charges, not "expire" or "consume".

This "CI" attempt also has a shitty chest, amulet and ring. It also has no main skill at all

[Post Edited by Support]

check my sig, the build in question is one i made a while ago and it does indeed prove max resists and immortal call are broken. i suggest they make max resists cap out at like 95% or something to prevent this. and immortal call probably shouldn't give invulnerability, but rather huge damage mitigation or regen

Alright, fair points, but:

*5% Saffel's doesn't drop anymore

*Voll's Devotion doesn't drop either

*My "Romira's Banquet makes you "lose" power charges, not "expire" or "consume"." should be true, so this means, that the build relies on a bug to pull of the IC

*How are the relevant stats? such as:
 *Total ES
 *Hit Chance
 *Crit Chance

Last thing, videos?

if a source of +max res is op then just nerf it or cap it, theres no need to completely overhaul how resists work, thats just complicating things without need.

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H4NS wrote:

Alright, fair points, but:

*5% Saffel's doesn't drop anymore

*Voll's Devotion doesn't drop either

*My "Romira's Banquet makes you "lose" power charges, not "expire" or "consume"." should be true, so this means, that the build relies on a bug to pull of the IC

*How are the relevant stats? such as:
 *Total ES
 *Hit Chance
 *Crit Chance

Last thing, videos?

Just step aside and think a bit....

Is it fair, that Immortal Call (immunity to physical) can be sustained indefinitely as long as there are 9 enemies around?

Is it fair, that maximum resists can be stacked up to 100%?

Is it fair, that the more maximum resists you stack, the more benefit you get? 5% maximum resist at 75% res will give you just 20% reduction, while the same 5% max res at 90% will give 50% reduction...

If you think those are fair, balanced, consistent and interesting mechanics, we have nothing to talk about. Feel free to enjoy balance flaws, cause i will not.

CI is probably the most fair immunity imaginable. Only very few enemies rely heavily on chaos damage, and even those can inflict another damage type. Chaos damage is usually just an supplementary damage type, and immunity to it alone wont make you much tougher.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

if a source of +max res is op then just nerf it or cap it, theres no need to completely overhaul how resists work, thats just complicating things without need.

You are wrong, the (maximum) resists mechanics is the root of problem there. It should be changed, you just cant make balanced sources of max res, when whole mechanics is broken.

Cap can help a bit, but hey - dont we already have a NORMAL resists for that?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

if a source of +max res is op then just nerf it or cap it, theres no need to completely overhaul how resists work, thats just complicating things without need.

The problem with just nerfing it is that it would actually make the effect worse. Players would get even less of a benefit from using one form of +max resistance; they would still get a large benefit from stacking multiple iterations. It would become even more of a thing to just commit to as hard as possible, otherwise it's not worth the bother.

The problem with just capping it is that it introduces the hardest form of diminishing returns possible: zero improvement. While I might agree to an impregnable cap of 95%, that wouldn't fix the problem in-and-of-itself, since 95% is still a huge advantage over 75%. Making such a cap too low can have problems of its own, as players counterintuitively receive zero benefit from Ruby Flasks, etc.

I must agree with you that a complicated fix is not technically needed, and that there are some cruder methods which would cure the OP and bring about positive change. However, I do not believe such cruder methods are inferior in terms of end result. This means a more complicated fix is not necessary, but nevertheless preferable.

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CookieVortex wrote:

It's much easier to face elemental reflect than physical. It's so easy to get 85%+ mitigation against elemental reflect. Now let's talk about hard physical crits for 3k+, show me how to mitigate 85% of these. Only 32k armour required so easy for ES char...

Not even talking about real crits for 10k, you can't even get close to 85%.

Maybe I am slow, but why is it a problem that it is possible to become close to immune to the elements, but hard to avoid getting a headache if someone hits you in the head with a mace?

Some types of damage is easier to mitigate than others, why is that "unbalanced"?

Is it PvP we are talking about?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

if a source of +max res is op then just nerf it or cap it, theres no need to completely overhaul how resists work, thats just complicating things without need.

The problem with just nerfing it is that it would actually make the effect worse. Players would get even less of a benefit from using one form of +max resistance; they would still get a large benefit from stacking multiple iterations. It would become even more of a thing to just commit to as hard as possible, otherwise it's not worth the bother.

The problem with just capping it is that it introduces the hardest form of diminishing returns possible: zero improvement. While I might agree to an impregnable cap of 95%, that wouldn't fix the problem in-and-of-itself, since 95% is still a huge advantage over 75%. Making such a cap too low can have problems of its own, as players counterintuitively receive zero benefit from Ruby Flasks, etc.

I must agree with you that a complicated fix is not technically needed, and that there are some cruder methods which would cure the OP and bring about positive change. However, I do not believe such cruder methods are inferior in terms of end result. This means a more complicated fix is not necessary, but nevertheless preferable.

but you receive zero benefit from stacking resists beyond 75%, thats only counterintuitive until you know theres a cap, then it is a very clear situation.

95% is a huge advantage, and maybe id cap it at 90% personally as I agree maybe a little too much advantage. But having 18k armour, 6 endurance charges, a lightning coil and a perfect granite flask of iron skin up is a huge advantage over someone with 4k armour, and so it should be if youve gone to those lengths. I dont really see that as a problem personally. Again a char with 4k ev against a char with a coil, 15kev, phase acro, block and ondars is arguably the same or even a greater jump than 75% to 95% res in terms of how that character is going to tank in game.

I agree with what you say about preferable solutions in terms of how powerful players mitigation is and how that balances across multiple sources of +max res etc. I totally agree theres merit sin being less crude. However I personally think making resists more complicated and ending up with having to use a calculator and formulas to understand exactly what is going on is not a good thing. I think becoming aware of a cap is far more player friendly than turning it into a calculation like armour that just becomes too much to give a shit about fully understanding what adding another 1,238 armour to your current 7,546 is actually going to mean against the various mosnters youre fighting. To me keeping the way it works as simple as it is now would be a big + factor in itself, but obviously that is a preference thing.


I agree with what you say at the start about forcing full committal, that is an issue for sure. If it were me id use a cap and look at each source of max res, might be inclined to take flasks down to 8%, together they would be more balanced than reducing sources alone I feel because of this issue.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

if a source of +max res is op then just nerf it or cap it, theres no need to completely overhaul how resists work, thats just complicating things without need.

You are wrong, the (maximum) resists mechanics is the root of problem there. It should be changed, you just cant make balanced sources of max res, when whole mechanics is broken.

Cap can help a bit, but hey - dont we already have a NORMAL resists for that?

I completely disagree.