something fishy - rng is not rng

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Tinfoil is tinfoil.

Tin Foil is always Aluminum Foil. According to Wikipedia tin foil was phased out in 1910.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

For the record, the system being described by Arrowneous does not exist in the game. Unique drops are not recorded, and have no effect on future unique drops*.

Unique (and other) item drops are independent events.

*except for if a unique drops which grants IIQ or IIR stats to the user, which would, technically, affect future drops if you equip it. Which isn't what we're discussing at all, but I'm worried if I don't explicitly mention it, someone's going to jump on that specific case as a way to prove me wrong.

Appreciated bit of information. Will let igna know about it so he can add it to the unique item list. :P

Although people will still call BS on anything you said just because there must be an explanation for their bad luck and someone to blame at. #FuckTheEconomy

I'm sure there are many things the PoE loot system isn't, Mark.

but then I'm also sure you are not going to give us any information about what it is, either.
and you are also unlikely to say, if you guys ever read or indeed put any of the literally thousands of good suggestions about it, to practice.

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Nightmare90 wrote:

#FuckTheEconomy

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johnKeys wrote:

I'm sure there are many things the PoE loot system isn't, Mark.

...but then I'm also sure you are not going to give us any information about what it is, either.

Reading between the lines of what GGG has disclosed, it is a long-sequence integer pseudo-random number generator whose seed is frequently reset. As used by PoE, the variance of its results is completely unrestrained over any practical time interval. In other words, the only thing you'll ever get out of it is sheer dumb luck.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

For the record, the system being described by Arrowneous does not exist in the game. Unique drops are not recorded, and have no effect on future unique drops*.

Unique (and other) item drops are independent events.

*except for if a unique drops which grants IIQ or IIR stats to the user, which would, technically, affect future drops if you equip it. Which isn't what we're discussing at all, but I'm worried if I don't explicitly mention it, someone's going to jump on that specific case as a way to prove me wrong.

This should be obvious.

It would be rather nice to have such things stated explicitly somewhere to stop all the rabble. :D

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Mark_GGG wrote:

*except for if a unique drops which grants IIQ or IIR stats to the user, which would, technically, affect future drops if you equip it. Which isn't what we're discussing at all, but I'm worried if I don't explicitly mention it, someone's going to jump on that specific case as a way to prove me wrong.

At least you realised what kind of community we have in poe

hue hue hue

"

For the record, the system being described by Arrowneous does not exist in the game. Unique drops are not recorded, and have no effect on future unique drops*.

Unique (and other) item drops are independent events.

*except for if a unique drops which grants IIQ or IIR stats to the user, which would, technically, affect future drops if you equip it. Which isn't what we're discussing at all, but I'm worried if I don't explicitly mention it, someone's going to jump on that specific case as a way to prove me wrong.

What about mirror drops? I wouldn't dismiss what Arrowneous stated so quickly.

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Gemdraco wrote:

"

For the record, the system being described by Arrowneous does not exist in the game. Unique drops are not recorded, and have no effect on future unique drops*.

Unique (and other) item drops are independent events.

*except for if a unique drops which grants IIQ or IIR stats to the user, which would, technically, affect future drops if you equip it. Which isn't what we're discussing at all, but I'm worried if I don't explicitly mention it, someone's going to jump on that specific case as a way to prove me wrong.

What about mirror drops? I wouldn't dismiss what Arrowneous stated so quickly.

The variance you see as a player for low-probability drops significantly server-wide in the aggregate. Flip a coin 10 times and you can get 8 heads reasonably often (~5% of the time you'll get at least 8 heads). Flip a coin 1000 times and the chances of getting >= 800 heads are close to zero (on the order of 10^{-85}).

RNG gets pretty reliable if you throw enough dice.

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syrioforel wrote:

"

Gemdraco wrote:

"

For the record, the system being described by Arrowneous does not exist in the game. Unique drops are not recorded, and have no effect on future unique drops*.

Unique (and other) item drops are independent events.

*except for if a unique drops which grants IIQ or IIR stats to the user, which would, technically, affect future drops if you equip it. Which isn't what we're discussing at all, but I'm worried if I don't explicitly mention it, someone's going to jump on that specific case as a way to prove me wrong.

What about mirror drops? I wouldn't dismiss what Arrowneous stated so quickly.

The variance you see as a player for low-probability drops significantly server-wide in the aggregate. Flip a coin 10 times and you can get 8 heads reasonably often (~5% of the time you'll get at least 8 heads). Flip a coin 1000 times and the chances of getting >= 800 heads are close to zero (on the order of 10^{-85}).

RNG gets pretty reliable if you throw enough dice.

TRNG does and to an extent some prng systems will but these are to slow/heavy for use to use as a arpg prng system, Enterprise level PRNG that can work for environments like this do not... the difference being that these kinds of prng are made to be light and fast with minimal resource use and near zero wait time (so just a seed and a cpu clock check). That means it has numerous issues, such as a more limited subset of results that will repeat themselves a lot quicker then more fully featured prng systems plus heavier tendencies to cluster results more tightly. Once that pattern has exhausted itself and repeats then it doesn't matter how many more times you run it because the distribution and results will be the same (just the seed can change this table, which is often based on date from the system clock). These are also predictable enough that people have written programs that can tell you what its generating and is why these prng systems cannot be used in either computer/server/internet security or in gambling games (with real money flowing). Hence they are deemed GOOD ENOUGH to fill the needs of a server based arpg, they are not however actually good systems.

In fact there was a gif once posted here that displayed how it reacted on a windows system compared to a linux based one as well. The linux one formed nice little clusters that while predictable and limited simulated some form of psuedo randomness (still had a lot of white space in clean patterns, with almost all results clustered) while the exact same code in windows formed bars lining across the image with massive white space. The only thing I think that can alter this requires a macro outlook that extends the results table so that multiple clusters of results occur within each desired possibility (using a lot more resources but will hide the clusters) instead of just the usual dividing the result by the number of possible entries to get a particular item.


edit - Heck, look at all the games in which you can indirectly MANIPULATE the results (fairly close to all games). It lets me pick what 'random' enemy I fight and what is rewarded in any rpg game with 100% accuracy (if done right), lets people pick what pokemon they would encounter, allowed people to pick the 'random' charm table they would get in monster hunter 3u and etc... and all it needed was to set the system clock or to reset the game in order to gain control of these 'random' results.