The wall of real problems that prevent PoE from being a god-tier game

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tinko92 wrote:

I've never seen anyone saying the gambling (crafting) is fine and that the gated content is also fine, except for some people with multiple supporter titles.

Funny thing is though that the players with supporter titles are also the players who give GGG their money and keeping the game alive.

It's fine and good to complain and make suggestions but in the end PoE lives of the players which pay money and if as you say the ones spending the most money on the game are fine with RNG and gated content then I guess there is nothing wrong with the game, except for the ones who don't support the game... but who really needs them in the end.

It would be much worse if all the people paying money on the game would leave and not the freeloaders...

Just saying you know.

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KenshiD wrote:

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tinko92 wrote:

I've never seen anyone saying the gambling (crafting) is fine and that the gated content is also fine, except for some people with multiple supporter titles.

Funny thing is though that the players with supporter titles are also the players who give GGG their money and keeping the game alive.

It's fine and good to complain and make suggestions but in the end PoE lives of the players which pay money and if as you say the ones spending the most money on the game are fine with RNG and gated content then I guess there is nothing wrong with the game, except for the ones who don't support the game... but who really needs them in the end.

It would be much worse if all the people paying money on the game would leave and not the freeloaders...

Just saying you know.

And yet multiple players that have been playing far longer than any of the 'supporters' have pointed out various problems with Path of Exile that haven't been fixed for ages. And no, I'm not even talking about desync. I'm talking about shit like mana being a completely garbage resource, and yet GGG continues to make patches that make mana worse, and worse, and worse, and worse, and worse.

- make map boss drop a guaranteed +0/+1 map
- make regal orbs add 2 mods
- make exalted orbs about 100 times more common
- double the pack sizes in the entire game

hm it seems I'd like drastic changes

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KenshiD wrote:

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tinko92 wrote:

I've never seen anyone saying the gambling (crafting) is fine and that the gated content is also fine, except for some people with multiple supporter titles.

Funny thing is though that the players with supporter titles are also the players who give GGG their money and keeping the game alive.

It's fine and good to complain and make suggestions but in the end PoE lives of the players which pay money and if as you say the ones spending the most money on the game are fine with RNG and gated content then I guess there is nothing wrong with the game, except for the ones who don't support the game... but who really needs them in the end.

It would be much worse if all the people paying money on the game would leave and not the freeloaders...

Just saying you know.

I've corrected myself there, pretty lame from you to comment on it after that.

Playing the game (a free to play game) is also keeping the game alive.
And sadly, some people have a need to blindly defend something because they've given GGG their money, so it's kind of self-ensuring that their money hasn't gone to waste.

Well, people probably don't give GGG money because they love gambling taken to extreme here, in fact, I've been seeing more and more of supporters that complain about that.
People support GGG because of the idea and potential, I'm sure that most of supporters will tell you that.

You can ask GGG that same question "who really needs them", and I would really love seeing you trade or party up if only the supporters that are still playing now would play then.

So you see... that kind of attitude from supporters is actually doing a lot of harm to GGG. That elitist attitude isn't fruitful at all.

And like allbusiness said... does a supporter tag really makes someone's opinion more valuable? I'll answer, it doesn't.

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tinko92 wrote:

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KenshiD wrote:

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tinko92 wrote:

I've never seen anyone saying the gambling (crafting) is fine and that the gated content is also fine, except for some people with multiple supporter titles.

Funny thing is though that the players with supporter titles are also the players who give GGG their money and keeping the game alive.

It's fine and good to complain and make suggestions but in the end PoE lives of the players which pay money and if as you say the ones spending the most money on the game are fine with RNG and gated content then I guess there is nothing wrong with the game, except for the ones who don't support the game... but who really needs them in the end.

It would be much worse if all the people paying money on the game would leave and not the freeloaders...

Just saying you know.

I've corrected myself there, pretty lame from you to comment on it after that.

Playing the game (a free to play game) is also keeping the game alive.
And sadly, some people have a need to blindly defend something because they've given GGG their money, so it's kind of self-ensuring that their money hasn't gone to waste.

Well, people probably don't give GGG money because they love gambling taken to extreme here, in fact, I've been seeing more and more of supporters that complain about that.
People support GGG because of the idea and potential, I'm sure that most of supporters will tell you that.

You can ask GGG that same question "who really needs them", and I would really love seeing you trade or party up if only the supporters that are still playing now would play then.

So you see... that kind of attitude from supporters is actually doing a lot of harm to GGG. That elitist attitude isn't fruitful at all.

And like allbusiness said... does a supporter tag really makes someone's opinion more valuable? I'll answer, it doesn't.

I'm just pointing out that GGG needs players who also financially support them because they are a free to play game.

And as long as the game has players who are willing to spend money on it it can survive.

I support GGG because I like PoE and want to play it for the coming X years.
This is also why I make suggestions on things I think they can improve (like balancing and monster AI, skills and obvious stuff like desync and performance).

I've talked to a lot of people ever since Ive been active here again on the forums. Streamers, friends, random people. And I've heared people say RNG is okay and some say it could be better.

But I've yet to find people who are supporters of the game who hate on it.(besides here on the feedback forum)

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And like allbusiness said... does a supporter tag really makes someone's opinion more valuable? I'll answer, it doesn't.

You are missing the point. The point is that as long as players playing and paying money the game lives.
If PoE would lose 50% of its highest peak of the playerbase from like Steam, but those were all players who never spent a cent on it, that would be tragic in some statistical sense, but of the core audience is still there the game continues to exist.

Hell I want the game to be as good as it can.
I made various posts on different endgame systems even back in Closed Beta, about less RNG based crafting and item acquiring. But in the end GGG makes the decisions.


So unless you can get Chris or any other dev in some long tough interview where you show him hard data on how many player in the community hate the excessive RNG in PoE and offer solutions then it's very unlikely that anything will change.

Because lets face it, are the people who hate RNG a majority or just a vocal minority?
I personally don't know.

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zamppe wrote:

- make map boss drop a guaranteed +0/+1 map
- make regal orbs add 2 mods
- make exalted orbs about 100 times more common
- double the pack sizes in the entire game

hm it seems I'd like drastic changes

I would like to see the following on Maps:

- Easy mods that do nothing. (pack size, more blues etc)

- Medium hard mods that increase IIQ or IIR (monster buffs, simple player debuff)

- Very hard mods that increase EXP (basically anything people usually don't like to run like -max resist etc)

also give all but maybe one map in a level tier implicit mods which make the map harder so people who run white maps (like in ambush atm) still have a challenge.

Or make that white maps have a very low chance of dropping more maps and blue maps have a 100% higher chance to drop maps and rare maps have a 200% higher chance. Just by default.

Give map bosses a similar map drop chance like piety.

Make a mod which makes the map harder but also increases the chance to get maps from it (like, Monster are 20% faster, deal 30 more damage but also have a higher chance to drop maps.)

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KenshiD wrote:

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tinko92 wrote:

I've never seen anyone saying the gambling (crafting) is fine and that the gated content is also fine, except for some people with multiple supporter titles.

Funny thing is though that the players with supporter titles are also the players who give GGG their money and keeping the game alive.

It's fine and good to complain and make suggestions but in the end PoE lives of the players which pay money and if as you say the ones spending the most money on the game are fine with RNG and gated content then I guess there is nothing wrong with the game, except for the ones who don't support the game... but who really needs them in the end.

It would be much worse if all the people paying money on the game would leave and not the freeloaders...

Just saying you know.

Perhaps fixing some of those RNG issues would actually *gasp* bring in new customers and new supporters. It's kindof to be expected that people who don't enjoy RNG to an extreme aren't going to stick around and pay to be annoyed by RNG time after time. Besides, people with titles are just blokes who already paid, who says they'll be paying even more in the future anyway?

During my roughly 200 hours of game time I bought one stash pack worth 20 bucks. I'm nearing the point where a second pack would be really useful. But now that the only thing left to do for me is run piss-easy maps that provide no challenge whatsoever, only in the hopes of getting a 76+ map every once in a blue moon, I feel there's no point in continuing. The only challenges the game has left for me require first that I be bored out of my mind for multiple hours if not days (grinding low level maps, grinding map fragments) before I earn the privilege of experiencing whether any part of the game is still challenging.

I'd be fine if there'd be a point to that grind. Say, I'd get lucky and a 78 map drops or I get the full fragment set, and I notice running that content is absurdly difficult, well, that'd be a great incentive for me to go and get more levels, get better gear, improve my build even further, heck grind for currency and gear so I can trade my way up to better gear. I love that type of grind, as long as it serves the purpose to progress through ever tougher and more difficult content. You know, what the previous 200 hours of the game were about for me, where the game challenges me first, rather than to put barriers in front of its challenge like a 5 hours waiting line in front of a roller-coaster ride, with a sign 'you need to be THIS bored to enter'.

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KenshiD wrote:

You are missing the point. The point is that as long as players playing and paying money the game lives.
If PoE would lose 50% of its highest peak of the playerbase from like Steam, but those were all players who never spent a cent on it, that would be tragic in some statistical sense, but of the core audience is still there the game continues to exist.

Because lets face it, are the people who hate RNG a majority or just a vocal minority?
I personally don't know.

This game is balanced around an economy.
For an economy you need a critical mass of participants.
If the more casual crowd leaves, the economy loses a big chunk of buyers.
The pyramid scheme of transferring good items to the players that are less heavily invested will come to a halt more and more. And then, if there is nobody who buys stuff cheap, even the no-lifers will notice a change to their gameplay.

And then once you can't buy the highest tier items on a regular basis because their droprate is adjusted for a way bigger audience, then even the no-lifers will lose incentive to play if there's no chance for them to advance in any way.

This trend already is in motion.

This weekend i sold items for prices that make me cringe. items with 5 decent-top rolls go for 1 or 2 chaos.

p.s.: most people i know that left did so mainly because the gearing up stops before you feel your character is completed / got heavily screwed by rng when trying to 5link an item (300+ fuses).

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tinko92 wrote:

It cannot be proven, anyone can come to that conclusion by reading the forum.
And since I cannot prove that, and you're acting blind to that, it's pointless to even mention this ever again with you.

some people never post on the forums, especially those who like what the game is. for every player like myself who tries to go against the 'established' qqers there are tons who just play the game. and in fact I think they're better off, a wise man once said dont try to argue with fools- Im dumb not to listen.

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It's not my opinion, it's the opinion of the majority, and that's a huge majority.

and even if it is, it doesnt make it anymore right or wrong, something you STILL fail to understand.
majority of people thought earth was flat. so ?

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No, that doesn't mean I'm saying what's good or bad for the game, because I don't know what the game is supposed to be like in the end.

exactly- so if you want to be taken seriously- please speak for yourself, not for 'everyone' or 'majority'

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I can only say what's good or bad for the huge majority of the players, and that, like I've said, can easily be seen on the forum.

if you look at d3 forums, youd think d3 ros was an absolute piece of shit game, there's so much complaining going on. the thing you dont get is that people who like to complain will voice their opinion more so than people who are content. it's tech support/customer care basics.

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By that ego, I meant that you feel hardcore for playing PoE instead of D3 or TL2, it's quite common thesedays.

I dont feel hardcore by playing anything, I just have different expectations for each game. TL2 was a good game, but I dont feel replaying it on NG+. there are tons of games much better PoE that I have played for much less than PoE. yes, I might be addicted to PoE, but its not because of gambling or rng. its the process and theorycrafting.

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So, you see... you're wrong.

Im not wrong because my stance is purely an opinion, which cannot be 'right' or 'wrong'.

which is something you still cannot understand for some reason. you think if your opinion is in the majority is the 'right' one. which is absurd.

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The reasons why casino's are overall very rare places is because only a very small part of population enjoys it. And, a good part of people who go to casino's don't even enjoy it, they're trying to earn some "easy" money.
Of course I don't speak for myself only, why would I? The situation is clear, huge majority of players do not like this

so because you think you can make sweeping generalizations you can speak for others ?
including casino gamblers now.
lol this is hilarious as fuck
any time you speak on behalf of others, Im going to ignore it from now.

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Well, I'll tell you that Minesweeper is millions of miles away from PoE regarding randomness and gambling. It's 95%+ simple math and logic.
So, you're saying that a much less gambling in crafting would decimate the non-linear progression for you? As well as non-gated (behind RNG) content? How would a content gated behind difficulty be a bad thing in a game of this genre? I mean, there is a reason why PoE is the only game that has this.
I never said anything about guaranteed X.

my point was that I like the process and longevity you get in PoE. sure, you can increase drops of some rare uniques a bit, I wouldnt mind. but in general, the process is fine with me. I have my own weird self-constraints like usually playing with no mf and trying to get best possible gear I can afford to make my character more tanky/more deeps instead.

with that said, unlike others I dont feel entitled to get the absolutely BEST, mirrored gear if I invest even million of hours in the game. Im fine with not getting jack shit and not seeing 78 maps even when playing 1k hours, because I like the process- you guys are not.

and uh, in minesweeper rng is a huge problem, especially in 50/50 situations. I dont finish most of my large field minesweeper sessions- I play for process, not to *win* or *score* as many times as possible. in short, I love what others call *wasting time* in PoE.

by making guaranteed additions, youd make it so everyone will level to 100 or have a 6L. thats boring and sucks life out of the grind, imo

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grepman wrote:

some people never post on the forums, especially those who like what the game is. for every player like myself who tries to go against the 'established' qqers there are tons who just play the game. and in fact I think they're better off, a wise man once said dont try to argue with fools- Im dumb not to listen.

^

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grepman wrote:

exactly- so if you want to be taken seriously- please speak for yourself, not for 'everyone' or 'majority'

^ also