The wall of real problems that prevent PoE from being a god-tier game

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zamppe wrote:

- make map boss drop a guaranteed +0/+1 map

NO. this makes low level maps absolutely ob-so-lete. the 66,67,68 maps are already just mats for chisel recipe

once you introduce this, in a couple of months the only maps that will be ran is 78s, at least in perma leagues

thats something Im vehemently against, and thankfully, so is RNG...er, GGG

"

- make regal orbs add 2 mods

this is interesting, because this will actually interfere with the guaranteed crafting process by trans/alt/regal/eternal/exalt/et/ex/et/ex....mirror

whats ironic is that high level crafting is about the only guaranteed thing in PoE, and its by far the WORST thing ever in terms of craft.

so this can or cannot work, but still need orb that adds only one item for more controlled crafting if we want to keep the et/ex method (which I hate)

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- make exalted orbs about 100 times more common

what will that achieve ? if eternals are still there, this will just achieve the saturation of BiS items on the market, especially so in perma-leagues.

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- double the pack sizes in the entire game

best suggestion so far imo. why not, density is always good- shrine density is nice.

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KenshiD wrote:

Spoiler

I'm just pointing out that GGG needs players who also financially support them because they are a free to play game.

And as long as the game has players who are willing to spend money on it it can survive.

I support GGG because I like PoE and want to play it for the coming X years.
This is also why I make suggestions on things I think they can improve (like balancing and monster AI, skills and obvious stuff like desync and performance).

I've talked to a lot of people ever since Ive been active here again on the forums. Streamers, friends, random people. And I've heared people say RNG is okay and some say it could be better.

But I've yet to find people who are supporters of the game who hate on it.(besides here on the feedback forum)

"

And like allbusiness said... does a supporter tag really makes someone's opinion more valuable? I'll answer, it doesn't.

You are missing the point. The point is that as long as players playing and paying money the game lives.
If PoE would lose 50% of its highest peak of the playerbase from like Steam, but those were all players who never spent a cent on it, that would be tragic in some statistical sense, but of the core audience is still there the game continues to exist.

Hell I want the game to be as good as it can.
I made various posts on different endgame systems even back in Closed Beta, about less RNG based crafting and item acquiring. But in the end GGG makes the decisions.


So unless you can get Chris or any other dev in some long tough interview where you show him hard data on how many player in the community hate the excessive RNG in PoE and offer solutions then it's very unlikely that anything will change.

Because lets face it, are the people who hate RNG a majority or just a vocal minority?
I personally don't know.

It's kind of pointless to point that out, of course it needs.
But no, the game cannot survive with only supporters, because that's just way too low number of players for anything at the current state of the game.

Why are you mentioning the hate towards the game? I don't think that anyone who spends his time here on forum discussing things hates the game. Those who hate the game, either quit it without a goodbye or with a goodbye.

I don't have to collect the hard data, they themselves deal with all that things on a daily basis, they know everything.

No, people who play ARPG's don't hate RNG, that's absurd.
But people do hate this extreme version of it, that's the point.
Extremities are not good in any form or way, they just aren't.


@grepman
Yes, of course that the majority of players don't post at all, that's logical.

I fully understand that, it's you who don't understand that (I repeat) I'm not saying what's right or wrong for the game.
I'm trying to imply and discuss certain aspects of the game, two of them currently.
And I still haven't heard a single reason why is this RNG gated content better than a content gated by difficulty. Outside of group of people I've already said, because lets be real, there's enough of gambling availabilities around for a non-gambler to satisfy his gambling needs. And if I may dare to say, even for the gamblers.

I wonder why people constantly bring up D3 in every discussion even though it's completely irrelevant to it.

Please, don't separate a single point I was making, you were wrong about that casino's example, what's the point in quoting that individually and going off topic?
That casino example is a valid one, even though it slipped right by you and you were right back on the same track.

I'm not advocating an increase of rare uniques at all, what made you jump to that?
This has nothing to do with availability of best items in the game
And that's why I've said it's 95%+ luck in Minesweeper. The only time where it's about luck is in situations where the mine can be in any spot around.
And again with the guaranteed additions, I repeat, I've never said anything about that, why are you bringing that up?

Strongboxes actually make lower level maps worth doing. For instance I got a crematorium and a precinct from correctly rolling a cartographer box on a 71 strand.

RNG gating of content is biggest problem in this game.

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grepman wrote:

NO. this makes low level maps absolutely ob-so-lete. the 66,67,68 maps are already just mats for chisel recipe

once you introduce this, in a couple of months the only maps that will be ran is 78s, at least in perma leagues

thats something Im vehemently against, and thankfully, so is RNG...er, GGG

If high-level maps will be made harder (especially easy bosses in those), then it wont happen. Do you really think it will be viable to run level 78 map just to die 1-2 times to boss? I dont think so. ATM players want (and can) farm high-level maps with relatively easy mods, but skip all hard bosses.

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grepman wrote:

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- double the pack sizes in the entire game

best suggestion so far imo. why not, density is always good- shrine density is nice.

Just to benefit cookie-cutter AoE builds even more (like CoC)? Perhaps, better add tough rewarding single mobs instead?

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1 - Your time spent is not rewarding enough

This all the way. I have quit several times but keep forcing myself to get back on with the hope of finding something to make it actually fun to play, but having no expectation of it actually happening.

This is my prospective as a casual player, I have been playing a about 2 months and probably have around 150 hrs on my main character. The total value of everything I have earned to this point is about 2 exalted which I earned just from trading huge piles of Chromatic's and Alterations for them. I have yet to get even one item in the game actually worth using and everything I wear I bought with the 10 or so Chaos orbs that have dropped for me. I'm sorry but loot is garbage, I don't even bother looking at items while identifying anymore except for a ring or amulet to see if it's 60+ and usable for a recipe.

The is no reward for playing on higher difficulties, I found more Chaos and other orbs just as drops on normal then I have found with almost double the time in Merciless. Just the same garbage gear with garbage stats with no slots and no links, the only difference between difficulties just seems to be a higher req level and minuscule stat upgrades.

Really? I just don't get it, unless you can farm all day long every day how are you supposed to make any gear progression. Crafting is just for high end rich characters and completely useless to the newer people who could actually use it to try and bump up the useless junk that is all the seems to drop.

Well back to working on another week of farming to get that 3rd Exalted so I can try and buy a Tabula Rasa, since that will be the only six link item I will ever be able to get in this game.

Reading your story makes me sad, you are not actually grinding gear. Your grinding wealth to buy gear.
I know how it feels except I've been playing since open beta and became fed up with it. I really am not going to put all my time into this game when I will likely get killed by some bullshit Invasion boss and when this game is about flipping items.

GGG: Hardcore is getting rewarded for time invested progressing by trading a lot

Nah, the real problem is invasion.

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grepman wrote:

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- double the pack sizes in the entire game

best suggestion so far imo. why not, density is always good- shrine density is nice.

Actually, I'd like to see partying regulated by monster density, the way it is in borderlands. More players means more enemies and more badass enemies out of them. For instance where you might find two regular bandits and a psycho in single player you'd find two bandit killers, a psycho and a badass psycho if playing with two friends.

It gives more total hitpoints to the enemy pack and makes it more dangerous at the same time. The only problem would be AoE-focused playing in PoE but it could be tweaked by giving priority to enemy 'quality' over quantity.

Hey guys, i was travelling for some days, too much to address all. I just wanted to bring out this quote:

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SVD wrote:

p.s.: most people i know that left did so mainly because the gearing up stops before you feel your character is completed / got heavily screwed by rng when trying to 5link an item (300+ fuses).

This is very very true. The common excusist reaction is:

"but that is just your problem with your own expectation"

No, it's a matter of how well rewards are constructed, and if you are satisfied with how far you get before it becomes uninteresting for you to progress further compared to how far it is possible to ultimately get.

At the moment, the balance between those two is way off, and as such people leave in frustration because they do not feel satisfied with where they get, and they don't ask for BiS gear either.

EDIT: Also, anothe point i forgot to mention in OP and may add later, is that old content is left forgotten. Such as broken skills like arc etc.

I'm hoping that I'm not wasting your time by posting this; it feels like I might have a particularly unique perspective compared to all the other responses I've seen by endgame players. So far I have almost 200 hours logged since I started playing three weeks ago, but I only have a few 50s and a few 40s. I haven't gotten to the endgame content yet and I'm not entirely certain that I want to, which has been part of my motivation to just roll a new character and try out completely different builds.

Within the first week of playing I started reading threads about endgame content. Most of it was filled with complaints. It was disheartening, to say the least, because I'd already fallen in love with PoE, and I've quit a boatload of games fairly early for lack of or insufficient endgame. Of course, each PoE endgame complaint thread was also full of endgame defenders. But reading the posts in support of the endgame only seemed to serve as something that stopped my faith (that I'd be happy in endgame) from dropping even lower instead of actually making it rise back up.

Here's the meta problem as I see it, though I don't necessarily expect other people to agree for reasons that will probably become obvious. I always think that the measure of endgame content should be its quality regardless of the previous addiction to the game. The hypothetical question is, what would this content be like for players if they (magically) already knew everything that comes with playing the game for a long time and becoming well-versed in its dynamics but instead of actually playing through the early game they were just dropped into endgame content? So they have all the skills, they have all the knowledge, but they just start in the late game. Would it be enjoyable then? If endgame requires that you're so previously invested in the game that you are going to persist no matter what, then it's bad endgame. If endgame is independently enjoyable then it becomes a new reason to play when you get there. In the former situation players will be much less satisfied with their experience (regardless of whether they keep playing) and it just requires one strong trigger for people to quit, while in the latter scenario the fresh (or refreshed) playability is a huge boon that draws players deeper into the game for positive reasons.

I believe in economics the term is "sunk costs." Normal, rational people are intensely inclined to pursue a course of action if they've already invested a lot into it. The problem is that however much you invested in the past doesn't change the current projection. If something has a 90% chance to suck but you invested $1mil or 8k hours, it's still a 90% chance to suck. Likewise, if endgame content is tedious and unrewarding, that doesn't change by virtue of having put in 500 hours to the game. The only difference is that you get pushed forward in part due to the mere potential of having fun (i.e. acquiring sufficient gear required to progress your character, positive map progression, etc.), in part due to the memory of fun you had getting up to endgame content, and in part due to the investment you've already made in time and energy (and probably money, if you're a supporter). "I'm not gonna quit now; PoE is badass (based on concept and my previous history with the game) and I've already put in so much (money/time)."

I get grinding and farming. I get difficulty progression/scaling. I get gambling. The problem I'm having is that PoE endgame seems like work where the paycheck has an unforeseeable dollar amount written in and it may or may not even come in the mail. Sure, it's possible that I'll bank hard with the first check, or I may end up "working" for hundreds of hours just to end up broke (quitting the game unsatisfied and disappointed). There are tons of other games to play. But I don't want to play them as much as I want to play PoE, because the potential here is so huge. It's so dynamic and engaging and deep and difficult and complex, but as it stands now I'm reticent to move forward because I don't want to see myself stuck in the cycle of sunk costs and potential (instead of actual) fun while merely grinding forward and hoping for something better.