poe.xyz.is = The "auction house" that everyone thought we didn't need?

I've been against an AH in the past, because I saw what D3 looked like. I came to realize that the AH wasn't the reason D3 felt unrewarding, though. It was unrewarding because of bad itemization. The path to progress was the AH, not playing the game, as the loot affixes had too large of ranges (by design, to promote trade). PoE has a similar problem in that regard. Where PoE falls flat is making the designed method of progress tedious and time consuming.

If I'm expected to trade, that's one thing. If I'm expected to nanny a shop 8-12 hours a day to gain currency, that's another. All the bad trade system does is increase the disparity between the no lifer player, and the employed player, as the employed player will have to undercut the entire market to move his item in the 2-3 hours he has to be online. So not only does he move fewer items, he gets less for them. Buyouts and automated trade completion remedy this somewhat. The employed player will still have a disadvantage in that they have less time, so less product to sell (or opportunities to flip), but it wouldn't be exacerbated by silly design decisions.

implying itemization in PoE isn't bad?

not a kickass rare or powerful unique? worthless

itemization in poe is simplistic and easy to understand.

Certainly not. As I said, PoE has similar problems in that regard. Where it just totally falls apart is using an intentionally archaic and cumbersome trade system.

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b15h09 wrote:

Certainly not. As I said, PoE has similar problems in that regard. Where it just totally falls apart is using an intentionally archaic and cumbersome trade system.

yup we should do a better trade system

then drops can be even worse, like d3 was when it had the AH

oh god i can't wait for the terrible, awful drops

as it stands i'm level 92 on ambush. i have found pretty much literally nothing. been farming 77/78 maps since about 85.

no drops.

the game is not rewarding to play (nothing drops), and i chalk this up to the trade based economy.

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Veruski wrote:

implying itemization in PoE isn't bad?

not a kickass rare or powerful unique? worthless

itemization in poe is simplistic and easy to understand.

This is a case of exaggeration. The thing about exaggeration is that it's based on something true, so it's not wholly a lie, but it becomes a lie by blowing things out of proportion.

Worthless? Not always. Often, perhaps.

Simplistic and easy to understand? Not always. Depends on who you're talking about, and which items. Some players still struggle with it, and some items are hard to evaluate. Most don't struggle very hard to evaluate most items.

I feel itemization — by which I mean which rare affixes and uniques are available and what impact they have on builds — in PoE is something which isn't "fail" weak, but sometimes comes close. It's on my watchlist for things which could be improved. But I wouldn't go so far as to call it "bad." "Mediocre" comes to mind, but I think it's even better than that; I'd bump it up to "satisfactory," which I like because it implies compliance with a set of minimalistic standards. That's still noticeably short of "good" and especially far from "excellent." Compared to Diablo 3, even "mediocre" is a vast improvement.

In other words, I give itemization in this game a C, maybe a C+. It's not failing, but I wouldn't say I'm blown away. D3 gets an F. No ARPG I'm aware of (not even D2) gets an A- or better. None ever. I'm a harsh grader.

You might then wonder where my A standard comes from. Well, if you view cards as items, and decks as builds, then: Magic the Gathering. There's a game where some commons are more viable than certain rares, and a huge variety of different "items" are simultaneously viable in competitive play.

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Veruski wrote:

yup we should do a better trade system

then drops can be even worse, like d3 was when it had the AH

oh god i can't wait for the terrible, awful drops

as it stands i'm level 92 on ambush. i have found pretty much literally nothing. been farming 77/78 maps since about 85.

no drops.

the game is not rewarding to play (nothing drops), and i chalk this up to the trade based economy.

Can't disagree with any of that. Tuning drops for trade with excessive layers of RNG creates a progressively less rewarding experience. While your drops at level 20 will at least avg a good drop for a lvl 10 character, that system makes a lvl 70 area drop gear with mods that are, on average, good for a lvl 35. Less, likely, because the high tier affixes are weighted against. It's a bad system, and why I don't play characters very high, or ever really finish builds. Game starts to feel like a tax on my time for being stupid enough to play it.

Still, if trade was less cumbersome and making some currency to buy upgrades wasn't a day job, it'd make things much more enjoyable. Not as enjoyable as doing like most every other ARPG ever, and phasing out obsolete affixes, but I'll take any little improvements I can get.

The main difference with poe.xyz and the ex-D3 auction house is that in poe even if the person has posted a b/o you can still contact him in game and haggle, or try and offer alternate currencies etc. The prices aren't set in stone and you cant get the item instantly.

Now for the really cheap items that are 0.5-3 chaos there often isnt much room for haggling but other than that there is still a lot of opportunity for a more involved trade other then just an exchange of item/currency.

Theres trading as in, I am a bow user and I found a nice dagger.. I'm going to sell the dagger, then use the funds to buy a better bow.. or just trade the dagger for a new bow.


Then there is trading as in, for me to purchase my next bow, my best option is to buy lots of other items for cheaper than market price, and then re-sell it for a higher price. And keep doing this until I can afford that bow I wanted.


Which trading necessity is GGG looking for in this game?

I run Docks/Piety/Maps. Nothing drops for me that I can use, however I did get some items that will sell. Some for cheaps, like 1-3 Chaos. And woah this awesome neck, I can sell this for 10-15 chaos! And some throw away rares, that can lead to one Chaos for the vendor recipe.

After a couple of days of farming, not getting anything for myself, due to my trading efforts, I am awarded with enough currency to buy something that I CAN use, all the while, my farming efforts have culminated in other people getting the items that they need, while eventually, I get the items that I need.

I see zero problems with this system, since we have ways to quickly find the items that we need (poexyz, etc.)

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I run Docks/Piety/Maps. Nothing drops for me that I can use, however I did get some items that will sell. Some for cheaps, like 1-3 Chaos. And woah this awesome neck, I can sell this for 10-15 chaos! And some throw away rares, that can lead to one Chaos for the vendor recipe.

After a couple of days of farming, not getting anything for myself, due to my trading efforts, I am awarded with enough currency to buy something that I CAN use, all the while, my farming efforts have culminated in other people getting the items that they need, while eventually, I get the items that I need.

I see zero problems with this system, since we have ways to quickly find the items that we need (poexyz, etc.)

The idea is that the "ways to quickly find the items that we need" should be implemented in-game in a manner that everyone can easily use.