A Veteran's Proposal for a Self Found League - Poll Included!

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

The main issue of self found league is they need to redesign a version of the game intended for completely different type of gameplay and constantly rebalance it for all upcoming changes and have 2 versions of the game. Even then people will disagree what would be a "self found league." If you want a single player version of the game, the game isn't even done yet with 7 more acts to go. The game can completely radically change until then.

Literally it'll be easier to just have an offline version were people can mod.

While I admire the concept, I'm certainly not advocating GGG making "another game". Rather, I'd advocate for them to simply implement SFL without commensurate changes in core gameplay, and then TEST the player base reaction. What worries me is whether players are willing to recalibrate their expectations around pace of progress ("ggg suck i cant run maps in 1 weekend ur game sucks") and, I'm guessing, GGG's reluctance to risk their brand equity on a concept (SFL) that they are probably apathetic towards (they don't do stuff half-arsed).

P.

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

As for GDawn, yeah no. TOO traditional. Too lacking in innovation and improvement. TQIT is a few bucks on Steam. Definitely better value than the 30 bucks I paid to try the GDawn alpha.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too, and forget inovations, when I saw they still haven't fixed things like 'click - point - click' skill usage from TQ I was really turned off. Damn, have they fixed that yet?

That's the same problem I got with TL2, well polished and all that but there's just no thrill, and mechanics make no sense whatsoever, PoE is an icon of rule consistency compared to TL.

GGG top brass thinks that in an ARPG everything should be tradeable - gear, progress, content (maps), skills, quests, achievements... everything. You are stuck or too lazy or not enough hardcore to achive the goal by yourself? Well, just fire up trade chat or XYZ and do some shopping.

A SFL would be in a sharp contrast with this instant gratification, lazy, pretend hardcore design, where difficulty is avoided and path of least resistance is chosen. No more buying of progress, boss kills, act clears, XP (maps), ladder positions... No more streamers feeding on fan donated orbs. No more fusing lotteries - the pinnacle of ARPG gameplay! :))

A SFL would be in direct confrontation with GGG top brass design philosophy - shop your way through the game - so, don't count on it ever happening.

There will always be enough pretend hardcore people, that will continue to financially support a pretend hardcore game. So no worries about SF players leaving.

"

morbo wrote:

GGG top brass thinks that in the game they are making everything should be tradeable - gear, progress, content (maps), skills, quests, achievements... everything. You are stuck or too lazy or not enough hardcore to achive the goal by yourself? Well, just fire up trade chat or XYZ and do some shopping.

Fixed that for you.
Btw, I reached lvl 74 without much trouble self found on domination with a skill that is considered almost worthless, and I didn't spent a crazy amount of time farming there, not at all.

A new IG trade system should be coming at some point, and some basic trading through poe.xyz.is is easy and enough to progress at a quite good pace atm anyway.

SFL could eventually be nice, but the balance would be really sensitive in there, drop rate should not be increased too much.
I don't this happening anyway ...

"

Fruz wrote:

Btw, I reached lvl 74 without much trouble self found on domination with a skill that is considered almost worthless, and I didn't spent a crazy amount of time farming there, not at all.

And I reached lvl 80 in Invasion playing self-found solo, without much trouble (and I had fun too). The point is that in a shopping game, shoppers and leechers will always be ahead of you. The competitive aspect boils down to managing your shop and sealing good trading deals. The ladder can be bought or RMTed.

Even gameplay (combat) achievements (Atziri kills) can be bought, thus circumventing a huge portion of time investment & difficulty. That's how far GGG is stretching this "everything should be tradeable" concept.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

The main issue of self found league is they need to redesign a version of the game intended for completely different type of gameplay and constantly rebalance it for all upcoming changes and have 2 versions of the game.

the answer is to design around SF (or like 50% SF/50% trading or whatever) and leave traders alone

SF will easily expose how flawed endgame is, how deeply flawed end-game crafting is
(which is already obvious by Et drop ratio).

And if exodus will be huge enough (which i don't believe it will be),
then even hardcore players who trade will start asking hard questions.

+1

I enjoy trading but I also feel that this type of league would be really cool, on the subject of GGG making money that's pretty simple: the hoards of items/currency you normally hold onto and clog up your stash tab will turn into hoards of items you hold onto for alts and pieces of builds you want to make, a giant collection of leveling uniques etc.

I think rather than allowing currency trades it would work best to just tweak the existing vendor recipes e.g vendoring an orb of fusing would grant 4 jewellers orbs etc.
as for bind on pickup I think this discourages party play - perhaps take a leaf out of other ARPG's books and make items found in a party tradeable to the other party members for the next hour (timed pickups).

Definitely a solid and fun idea though (and yes drop rates would need a bit of a buff).

"

Metamorphic wrote:

on the subject of GGG making money that's pretty simple: the hoards of items/currency you normally hold onto and clog up your stash tab will turn into hoards of items you hold onto for alts and pieces of builds you want to make, a giant collection of leveling uniques etc.

SF players already do this; hoard gear for future builds, crafting, recipes...

I would argue that SF players need at least, if not more, stash tabs than traders. Because traders liquidate their gear into stackable currency orbs, because they can always buy everything they want and having currency is more flexible than having gear. A trader can fit 80 ex worth of gear in a stash space of a twohander.

People who have read my posts on this subject will know that I am more interested in changing the balance of the game from trading, perhaps to crafting, than in being specifically self-found. I am unwilling to invest time and money into playing a game balanced on shopping your way to success. It is perhaps my anti-capitalistic tendencies causing this, but I just find it so incredibly boring. So for me this comes down to accessibility.

This game has something that I truly enjoy - making meaningful choices. This comes in the form of customisation of the gems, tree, and gear. However, there are parts of the game that in a sense I can not explore without shopping, because the only way to afford some things is through playing the market (or RMT). So, by not being a dedicated shopper and flipper customisation options are taken away from me, which reduces the meaningful choices I can make. Basically, balancing around shopping is reducing the enjoyment that I could get from the game.

Would a SFL help? Depends. If it was just taking trading away, then no. I would still not be able to explore a lot of the options because I would not be able to find what I needed to do so (without extreme amounts of luck and/or time). There would have to be a fundamental rebalancing involved. Which brings me back to what I first said - I am more interested in changing the balance of the game from trading, perhaps to crafting. Why crafting? I enjoy it.

I think it goes without saying that this should be optional (and thus, a new league), and that it should not also be taken to an extreme where everything is easy; but I know some people will intentionally construct a straw-man out of these points if I leave this unsaid.

The sad truth is GGG could be capitalizing on two markets not just the "niche" product they intended it to be. I wouldn't put the SFL idea to rest, they were firm on many other aspects of the game and then adjusted it to cater to a different crowd.

Personally I am indifferent, they do whatever the fuck they want anyways.