Every thread in this forum has atleast one white-knight that, for no apparent reason at all, likes to shoot down any criticism or negative observation about the current state of the game. It's very interesting to observe this sort of behaviour extend from what's more well known to be blind patriotism and make its way to video game fanboyism.
Newsflash: This is a forum.
Perhaps some of you need to be reminded that means, so :
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/forum
"
3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
In this case the "public interest" is the common interest of the user base in PoE.
In other words, Anubite or whoever have every prerogative to go into every feedback thread and try to shoot down what they claim to be invalid criticism. If you or anyone has a complaint to post in a feedback thread, you should be prepared to prove your argument. If people can't examine claims, how can we distinguish the feedback that is good and constructive and feedback that isn't worth the keyboard it was typed on? Forums can't work if you ban dissenting opinions.
White knighting is not a problem because people try to refute criticisms against a thing; white knighting only becomes a problem when the person defending a game or a thing uses arguments they know to be bad in order to defend the game.
no shit... noone called to ban anything.
This is a matter of semantics... The problem is I didn't make it obvious in the context of my post that i'm referring exactly to those who have bad arguments. The difference is that I think it's a problem whether or not the person is aware they have bad arguments... They may think their argument is valid and sound but it's still an issue if 1. their argument is not cogent, and 2. the reason they presented the argument in the first place was because of blind loyalty.
Now, let me present a definition for you..
White knight
"
On an internet forum, a person who defends a member who is clearly wrong, usually with the hopes of gaining brownie points with said member. Often seen as negative behavior.
This isn't an obvious definition but it suffices to say a white knight isn't exactly a good thing when someone is referred to as one on a forum.
Now, GGG is obviously the member in this definition. So the entire purpose of my post was to point out that there are many individuals going around and constantly attacking posts with criticisms.. but not by actually refuting the argument, no that's too much work and they have a quota to reach.
But you have no basis to complain in this instance. Up until the point where you interjected, the argument was basically :
side1 : The number of RMT is too damn high, because [source]
side2 : Your source provides numbers, but those numbers are vague.
side1 : Even if the numbers aren't well-defined, they're defined enough to show there is a problem.
side2 : How so?
---
And that's pretty much where you jumped in. Up until this point although there was a lot of venom in the posts themselves, the conversation was actually following a rational progression. But as it stands, side1 never bothered to justify the numbers because the thread got derailed over character assassination, and side2's reaction was legitimate under the circumstances.
On an internet forum, a person who defends a member who is clearly wrong, usually with the hopes of gaining brownie points with said member. Often seen as negative behavior.
Yeah, because you know, you have the absolute truth about that ...
Most of the arguments ( not to say all of them ) in those kind of situations have been refuted many times, and you are talking about being blind ?
funny.
@Xarog : "would do something" and "being capable of" are two different things. Of course there will be people finding ways to create automates at some point, that's inevitable.
The hard part is making the bot interact with the world intelligently, deciding on the set of behaviours it should follow in order to kill things successfully is comparitively easy.
Every thread in this forum has atleast one white-knight that, for no apparent reason at all, likes to shoot down any criticism or negative observation about the current state of the game. It's very interesting to observe this sort of behaviour extend from what's more well known to be blind patriotism and make its way to video game fanboyism.
I like all the ad-hominem. Not that I should expect any better, but it seems to be the only way to discredit my opinion.
I discredited your opinion fine, didn't need the ad-hominem at the end, you basically contradicted yourself and presented your own ad-hominems calling people lunatics, so don't come at me with this hypocrite nonsense.
I see you made an attempt to answer the questions I asked, but you didn't really do a good job. RMT isn't hard in this game, and this game isn't extremely complex either... Now this is an example of overblowing something. You're going to sit here and tell me the mechanics of this game are extremely complex? Go search for yourself, RMT exists and it isn't difficult for people to engage in it. Now if you're not aware of its size, how can you call it marginal? That doesn't make a lot of sense now does it?
Now to give my 2 cents, I personally don't give a shit about this issue, I don't have the same interest in it as OP does, but you have next to no information or argument about either the scale of RMT or botting besides stating that if it was a problem you'd be doing it too... Good for you. At the very least, the OP provided some anecdotal evidence.
Every thread in this forum has atleast one white-knight that, for no apparent reason at all, likes to shoot down any criticism or negative observation about the current state of the game. It's very interesting to observe this sort of behaviour extend from what's more well known to be blind patriotism and make its way to video game fanboyism.
I like all the ad-hominem. Not that I should expect any better, but it seems to be the only way to discredit my opinion.
Call me a white knight all you guys want, I don't mind. I try to present GGG's opinion mixed with my own, because they don't post anymore on these forums. I've had more than enough heated discussions with Qarl, so much so that I don't really feel all that enthusiastic about leaving any more feedback for him. But that's neither here nor there--
The point is that botting and RMT is all hullabaloo. There's no mincing that. I've never once claimed it doesn't exist, thanks, I'm just telling you it's overblown by people who don't fully understand this games' recipe mechanics or want to take out their furstration on the game for whatever reason, it's not like they can actually prove botters and RMTers exist in the numbers they claim.
If botting were a huge issue, if it were easy and safe and what not, I'd be doing it myself. I mean, I played EVE, where botting is basically encouraged. I botted in that game. When I was younger, I botted in cheap lame korean MMOs, because hey, it was easy and safe with no repercussions. It's not the case here at all. So for what it's worth, I know from experience that botting isn't as nearly as a big as a problem. You can't just google a program and start running it, you're gonna lose your account and it's not going to be all that profitable.
PoE is harder than any modern online RPG I can think of, making successful bots is a challenge. RMT is also going to be hard because RMTers need to understand ALL the crazy mechanics of this game, from recipes to gems to the passive tree; it's especially hard to bot and farm as a RMTer on hardcore difficulties.
I'm writing from my iPad and its hard to type. You actually don't know much about the issue, best to stay quiet. Because the bot is one click it starts bottling very easy to download and to find.
I will do more research about it and inform GGG about the way it's working, not on this thread though.
My_Bloody_Valentine
Last edited by Rangers#0605 on Feb 26, 2014, 9:00:25 AM
Lol, you know you would have not been the first one being banned for trying a bot while being a Supporter of the game? What the hell are you thinking, that you are the internet police fighting for justice in the name of GGG?
Leave the ball to GGG and supply them with the info you got. Don't do anything dumb and pretend that you just wanted to help investigation without informing GGG prior. Breaking news: They will not trust your damn word.
Last edited by Nightmare90#4217 on Feb 26, 2014, 8:48:47 AM
I'm writing from my iPad and its hard to type. You actually don't know much about the issue, best to stay quiet. Because the bot is one click it starts bottling very easy to download and to find.
I will do more research about it and inform GGG about the way it's working, not on this thread though.
Lol, you know you would have not been the first one being banned for trying a bot while being a Supporter of the game? What the hell are you thinking, that you are the internet police fighting for justice in the name of GGG?
I'm not justice police or anything just try to help them, you don't have to be so rude.
My_Bloody_Valentine
Last edited by Rangers#0605 on Feb 26, 2014, 8:57:20 AM
Lol, you know you would have not been the first one being banned for trying a bot while being a Supporter of the game? What the hell are you thinking, that you are the internet police fighting for justice in the name of GGG?
I'm not justice police or anything just try to help them, you don't have to be so rude.
Sorry, just trying to push some sense into you, as the issue is overblown on the forum.
Don't risk your account over it and edit your posts. :)
Last edited by Nightmare90#4217 on Feb 26, 2014, 8:49:44 AM
Lol, you know you would have not been the first one being banned for trying a bot while being a Supporter of the game? What the hell are you thinking, that you are the internet police fighting for justice in the name of GGG?
I'm not justice police or anything just try to help them, you don't have to be so rude.
Sorry, just trying to push some sense into you, the issue is overblown on the forum.
Don't risk your account over it and edit your posts.
Don't worry about me didn't risk anything, I'm not after small things like farming 1 or 2 exalts. I like the game and think its great, no need to edit anything. They should ban me if they think I break any rules of theirs. That would be a good example.
But you have no basis to complain in this instance. Up until the point where you interjected, the argument was basically :
side1 : The number of RMT is too damn high, because [source]
side2 : Your source provides numbers, but those numbers are vague.
side1 : Even if the numbers aren't well-defined, they're defined enough to show there is a problem.
side2 : How so?
---
And that's pretty much where you jumped in. Up until this point although there was a lot of venom in the posts themselves, the conversation was actually following a rational progression. But as it stands, side1 never bothered to justify the numbers because the thread got derailed over character assassination, and side2's reaction was legitimate under the circumstances.
I've got every basis to complain.. Just as they have every prerogative to refute criticisms..
The problem is you made the mistake of thinking I actually bothered to try and comprehend every detail of the original post... I skim what isn't written well, and I have no stake in the overall argument. That doesn't take away anything from my observations though, because I found a poor argument and I addressed it. I've seen the same trend in many threads and that's what I pointed out.
Your little paraphrasing of the argument there is very cute but sorry I don't accept it. I read his posts in their entirety, and he isn't presenting those questions, he is asserting they are indeed marginal and that the issue is overblown. He is presenting his own argument, not asking questions as counterpoints.
Don't worry about me didn't risk anything, I'm not after small things like farming 1 or 2 exalts. I like the game and think its great, no need to edit anything. They should ban me if they think I break any rules of theirs. That would be a good example.
The second time I hear that this week.
Don't be a martyr for a bunch of people simply being bored, which would not appreciate it. As already said, supporter of the game were banned for botting and no one takes notice about it now. The forum structure + the fact that GGG does not talk about policy execution is the reason for this.
