A Message to Everyone

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tinko92 wrote:

Map management? That only improves your chances by a bit.

Don't get me started about the degenerate map system...

Get started because if you run maps correctly, you can keep forward progression. It's the same way people can make a living at blackjack even though the house has higher odds. If you play correctly, you'll win most of the time and be able to handle your losses. If you play sloppy you'll go broke quick then blame your "bad luck."

"

Awfeel wrote:

You have no problems, yet you say that it's expensive?

Why is it that LEVELING should cost the in game currency in the first place?

Do you agree with this?

RNG Maps + RNG Currency ~= RNG Gear / Wealth

No, high experience is expensive. Game, in it's current state isn't designed for people to be going over 85-90 to 100. If you want to do that, go for it, it's possible but it's going to take a tremendous amount of time and currency to do so.

You can get to 80 doing lunaris (I've done it), you can sustain 70-71s using nothing but blue maps, just don't expect to move to higher maps quickly.

If your goal is 80, no problems. If 90, it's going to be tough. If 100, prepare to be very annoyed if you aren't willing to do what's necessary to reach it. When I hear people like you complain about this stuff, I see someone who should be happy at 80, complaining they can't join the dozen or so people at 100. With thousands of people racing to 100, and only a handful being there, it should be a clue that it isn't easy to do. As it's been this way for over a year now, pretty sure it's intended as well.

"

Moosifer wrote:

Get started because if you run maps correctly, you can keep forward progression. It's the same way people can make a living at blackjack even though the house has higher odds. If you play correctly, you'll win most of the time and be able to handle your losses. If you play sloppy you'll go broke quick then blame your "bad luck."

That's nice, suppose I didn't run maps correctly by rolling at least 80%+ IIQ + at least pack or magic monster mods, since I was running out of maps constantly, so as my friends I've played with. (most of the time and most of them)

So, how do you manage your maps? If you share that with me, I'll go straight back to mapping again.

"

No, high experience are expensive. Game, in it's current state isn't designed for people to be going over 85-90 to 100. If you want to do that, go for it, it's possible but it's going to take a tremendous amount of time and currency to do so.

You can get to 80 doing lunaris (I've done it), you can sustain 70-71s using nothing but blue maps, just don't expect to move to higher maps quickly.

If your goal is 80, no problems. If 90, it's going to be tough. If 100, prepare to be very annoyed if you aren't willing to do what's necessary to reach it. When I hear people like you complain about this stuff, I see someone who should be happy at 80, complaining they can't join the dozen or so people at 100. With thousands of people racing to 100, and only a handful being there, it should be a clue that it isn't easy to do. As it's been this way for over a year now, pretty sure it's intended as well.

Why is the high experience expensive other than hard and time consuming?
Why aren't players equal by leveling progression since it's not designed to hit 90+?
Why some players level quicker and some slower?
Why not just make experience flow slower than it is now?

Clearly we're not talking about < 73 maps, it's fairly easy to build up map pools to that point.

And that last segment... just read my first 4 questions.

"

tinko92 wrote:

"

Moosifer wrote:

Get started because if you run maps correctly, you can keep forward progression. It's the same way people can make a living at blackjack even though the house has higher odds. If you play correctly, you'll win most of the time and be able to handle your losses. If you play sloppy you'll go broke quick then blame your "bad luck."

That's nice, suppose I didn't run maps correctly by rolling at least 80%+ IIQ + at least pack or magic monster mods, since I was running out of maps constantly, so as my friends I've played with. (most of the time and most of them)

So, how do you manage your maps? If you share that with me, I'll go straight back to mapping again.

"

No, high experience are expensive. Game, in it's current state isn't designed for people to be going over 85-90 to 100. If you want to do that, go for it, it's possible but it's going to take a tremendous amount of time and currency to do so.

You can get to 80 doing lunaris (I've done it), you can sustain 70-71s using nothing but blue maps, just don't expect to move to higher maps quickly.

If your goal is 80, no problems. If 90, it's going to be tough. If 100, prepare to be very annoyed if you aren't willing to do what's necessary to reach it. When I hear people like you complain about this stuff, I see someone who should be happy at 80, complaining they can't join the dozen or so people at 100. With thousands of people racing to 100, and only a handful being there, it should be a clue that it isn't easy to do. As it's been this way for over a year now, pretty sure it's intended as well.

Why is the high experience expensive other than hard and time consuming?
Why aren't players equal by leveling progression since it's not designed to hit 90+?
Why some players level quicker and some slower?
Why not just make experience flow slower than it is now?

Clearly we're not talking about < 73 maps, it's fairly easy to build up map pools to that point.

And that last segment... just read my first 4 questions.

To be honest most of the issues arises from shoddy end game because the game is incomplete still with act 4 coming out with a large amount of content planned after that to be slowly integrated in with the removal of playing the game 3x over.

Drop rates or minor tweak value is there to largely have people forget that the game literally isn't finished and give you a placeholder of something to do in the meanwhile. I'm surprised people even try to seriously level past 80 with even the game content itself that isn't extra maps is 68.

If you seriously want to up in maps you need someone to cull with high amounts of IIQ + high IIQ on the map, only way to increase map drops.

"

tinko92 wrote:

That's nice, suppose I didn't run maps correctly by rolling at least 80%+ IIQ + at least pack or magic monster mods, since I was running out of maps constantly, so as my friends I've played with. (most of the time and most of them)

So, how do you manage your maps? If you share that with me, I'll go straight back to mapping again.

Why is the high experience expensive other than hard and time consuming?
Why aren't players equal by leveling progression since it's not designed to hit 90+?
Why some players level quicker and some slower?
Why not just make experience flow slower than it is now?

Clearly we're not talking about < 73 maps, it's fairly easy to build up map pools to that point.

And that last segment... just read my first 4 questions.

I've been tracking map drops, I have over 1k tracked. Every map you run you will get 50% back as that level or higher. If you get 1 75, run it, 50% chance you'll get nothing at or higher level. If you get 10 75s, run them, chances are (regardless of IIQ even) that you'll return with 5 75s and/or above.

1. You're paying orbs for speed, not directly for the experience. You can get the same amount of exp from a 66 that you could from a 78, 78 is just a fuckload quicker.

2. What are you talking about? One, the game is built around competition and it being unfair. Second, everyone has the potential to do the same or better (or worse) than anyone else in the game.

3. Any game with a ladder would be dumb to just make it a time invested = level. You want to foster competition. You want people to care what position they are on the ladder. If it's just as simple as, play 10 hours get this much exp, who would ever consider competing with streamers?

4. Ruin the experience for everyone because some people are successful? Why would we pander to the lowest common denominator rather than the average?

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

To be honest most of the issues arises from shoddy end game because the game is incomplete still with act 4 coming out with a large amount of content planned after that to be slowly integrated in with the removal of playing the game 3x over.

Drop rates or minor tweak value is there to largely have people forget that the game literally isn't finished and give you a placeholder of something to do in the meanwhile. I'm surprised people even try to seriously level past 80 with even the game content itself that isn't extra maps is 68.

If you seriously want to up in maps you need someone to cull with high amounts of IIQ + high IIQ on the map, only way to increase map drops.

That's no excuse for making level progression gated behind RNG.

Only way to increase map drops is by IIQ of the map itself.

"

I've been tracking map drops, I have over 1k tracked. Every map you run you will get 50% back as that level or higher. If you get 1 75, run it, 50% chance you'll get nothing at or higher level. If you get 10 75s, run them, chances are (regardless of IIQ even) that you'll return with 5 75s and/or above.

1. You're paying orbs for speed, not directly for the experience. You can get the same amount of exp from a 66 that you could from a 78, 78 is just a fuckload quicker.

2. What are you talking about? One, the game is built around competition and it being unfair. Second, everyone has the potential to do the same or better (or worse) than anyone else in the game.

3. Any game with a ladder would be dumb to just make it a time invested = level. You want to foster competition. You want people to care what position they are on the ladder. If it's just as simple as, play 10 hours get this much exp, who would ever consider competing with streamers?

4. Ruin the experience for everyone because some people are successful? Why would we pander to the lowest common denominator rather than the average?

You see... you've just explained that level progression is gated behind RNG.
Chances here chances there, at the end of the day you'll most likely end up in a big minus.

1.
Why are some people paying more for speed than others?

2.
Let me pull you an example of PoE leveling competition:
10 runners line up and are about to start a 10000 meter race, they start, along the way some runners get hit by a rock in the calf and they need to rest a bit, while others continue normally.
Shortly after, second racer gets kicked in the balls by a random fan who ran away immediately after, the second racer is on the ground recovering from his injury, etc. etc. etc.
Now, how does that look? Competition based on luck? Nice job there, splendid.

3.
Any game? Please, point me ARPG/hack & slash game where you have to pay to level efficiently.

4.
Ruin for everyone? Are you playing even playing this game and/or interacting with people who play maps?


THE POINT IS
This so-called hardcore game is a game where you can handle the hard content, but you can't play it.
Where one upgrades his character but only to play content blindfolded, because he can't access harder content. Really hardcore.

"

tinko92 wrote:

You see... you've just explained that level progression is gated behind RNG.
Chances here chances there, at the end of the day you'll most likely end up in a big minus.

1.
Why are some people paying more for speed than others?

Because they can

"

2.
Let me pull you an example of PoE leveling competition:
10 runners line up and are about to start a 10000 meter race, they start, along the way some runners get hit by a rock in the calf and they need to rest a bit, while others continue normally.
Shortly after, second racer gets kicked in the balls by a random fan who ran away immediately after, the second racer is on the ground recovering from his injury, etc. etc. etc.
Now, how does that look? Competition based on luck? Nice job there, splendid.

No, this is how people who don't work hard justify shit. I was a coach and I played poker as often as I play POE (before online poker was banned) so I understand what your complaints are better than you do.

The race would go like this, first, there's certain people who are genetically at a disadvantage or advantage (people who are playing below or above the RNG average). There are people who are working to minimize this difference, through training harder, eating better and making smarter overall decisions. Good decisions can beat out natural gifts in many cases. (This is done through heavy trading, MFing, playing the market correctly, understand value of items and how to run maps. All things that can equalize RNG). Then when the race actual starts there's other factors. Did the person warm up correctly? (are they rolling maps properly) Are they nursing an injury? (are they starting with a low map pool to begin with) Are they familiar with the course? (Are they going to die to something on the map, losing exp is the same as not gaining fast enough)

There's MANY factors besides just some random fluke shit during the actual race. Like I said, I'm a track and field coach so I know everything that's involved in those people preparing for that race. It's not just, born gifted, let's go run! Just like mapping here isn't, shit first map, let's get those 78s rolling in!

"

3.
Any game? Please, point me ARPG/hack & slash game where you have to pay to level efficiently.

I could have sworn ubers in D2 required spending shit. I never did them personally, after I quit. Like Ragnarok is pointing out (maybe in this thread?) comparing 78 maps to baal runs is unfair, 78s are more similar to ubers in D2

"

4.
Ruin for everyone? Are you playing even playing this game and/or interacting with people who play maps?

I've probably run more maps than you, even with your 98 considered. I was running maps for almost a year before you started playing. The people who I know who play maps have a general understanding that they will easily get to 69-72, and hope to work into 73+s. Most of them don't bother going over 90 because of the cost of buying 76+ maps because they don't think they can sustain them.

Just like you wouldn't adjust the game to the luckiest people, you don't adjust it to the unluckiest. If you do adjust it to the unluckiest then any idiot can sustain 78s, get godly gear, then what's the point of even playing after that?

"

THE POINT IS
This so-called hardcore game is a game where you can handle the hard content, but you can't play it.
Where one upgrades his character but only to play content blindfolded, because he can't access harder content. Really hardcore.

Hardcore is more in the competition and time investment. I don't hear many hard games referred to as HC. Hardcore is more of the cutthroat feel one has when interacting with other players, you want to be higher level, you want better gear, you want their best gear at a lower cost, it's not a constant, some people you'll like or take pity on. The hardcore feel also comes from the fact that you can spend hundreds of hours and have nothing to really show for it, it's unforgiving. The game doesn't give a shit if you and I have the same experience playing. It's not going to hold your hand through any parts, it won't force feed you gear so you can progress. You need to know what to look for and if you can't find it, how to get it. All content can be hard if you struggle with any of these things.

ok so ive been playing about a year now every single day all day.. and im not much of a trader i trade to get what i need only really or sell what im finding

i found a legacy koams in the first month..

1 andvarius..

2 BOR only recently

1 20 ex spirtshield from lunaris 2 im farming everything up to 70 maps so far..

pretty much all the crappy uniques under the sun..

found about 15 exulted

no et no mirror yet

ive found most little rewards megnords malgaros hellbringers..

ive been raising my mf higher all the time but i dont see a massive diffrence from running regualur areas from 200-450 mf its mostly the bosses only way u notice much diffrence

but all this is alot of hours played and i still have to say its better then d2 the only way to get top character in d2 is make profit tradeing or rmt or botting or selling torches or something

"

Moosifer wrote:

Because they can

I wasn't expecting this, eh.

"

No, this is how people who don't work hard justify shit. I was a coach and I played poker as often as I play POE (before online poker was banned) so I understand what your complaints are better than you do.

The race would go like this, first, there's certain people who are genetically at a disadvantage or advantage (people who are playing below or above the RNG average). There are people who are working to minimize this difference, through training harder, eating better and making smarter overall decisions. Good decisions can beat out natural gifts in many cases. (This is done through heavy trading, MFing, playing the market correctly, understand value of items and how to run maps. All things that can equalize RNG). Then when the race actual starts there's other factors. Did the person warm up correctly? (are they rolling maps properly) Are they nursing an injury? (are they starting with a low map pool to begin with) Are they familiar with the course? (Are they going to die to something on the map, losing exp is the same as not gaining fast enough)

You're comparing genetics which is predetermined and a random occurrences which happen along the way, genetics doesn't change during the race.

Your "natural" gifts have nothing to do with map drops, but with buying maps. Except that part "how to run maps", talking about rolling or running maps?
If you're talking about rolling, then yes, it gives a slight chance of better map drops.
Running? I don't believe you meant in that way.

Size of map pool has nothing to do with map drops, even huge pools are going to deplete eventually (if there is anyone who never bought maps, not participated in public fee parties, who could keep his 76-78 map pool and reached 97+ level, please respond and verify).

Dieing also has nothing to do with map drops.

"

There's MANY factors besides just some random fluke shit during the actual race. Like I said, I'm a track and field coach so I know everything that's involved in those people preparing for that race. It's not just, born gifted, let's go run! Just like mapping here isn't, shit first map, let's get those 78s rolling in!

But, your profession has so many little things in common, I could single out only the hard work you've mentioned, as referring to rolling maps.

"

I could have sworn ubers in D2 required spending shit. I never did them personally, after I quit. Like Ragnarok is pointing out (maybe in this thread?) comparing 78 maps to baal runs is unfair, 78s are more similar to ubers in D2

I'd like some verifications, links, "evidences" of actual currency sinking into a leveling process.

"

I've probably run more maps than you, even with your 98 considered. I was running maps for almost a year before you started playing. The people who I know who play maps have a general understanding that they will easily get to 69-72, and hope to work into 73+s. Most of them don't bother going over 90 because of the cost of buying 76+ maps because they don't think they can sustain them.

Just like you wouldn't adjust the game to the luckiest people, you don't adjust it to the unluckiest. If you do adjust it to the unluckiest then any idiot can sustain 78s, get godly gear, then what's the point of even playing after that?

"My sword is bigger than yours" aren't of my concerns.
You claimed that non-RNG based leveling would ruin things for everyone, but then again, why are people playing other games then PoE? If the leveling process isn't RNG based and it's ruined for them.

Bolded part... people don't go for higher levels because it's expensive RNG based degenerate system.
There is no knowledge or effort, it's 95% luck and the other 5% would be the map rolling. (pulled those numbers out of my ass)

"

Hardcore is more in the competition and time investment. I don't hear many hard games referred to as HC. Hardcore is more of the cutthroat feel one has when interacting with other players, you want to be higher level, you want better gear, you want their best gear at a lower cost, it's not a constant, some people you'll like or take pity on. The hardcore feel also comes from the fact that you can spend hundreds of hours and have nothing to really show for it, it's unforgiving. The game doesn't give a shit if you and I have the same experience playing. It's not going to hold your hand through any parts, it won't force feed you gear so you can progress. You need to know what to look for and if you can't find it, how to get it. All content can be hard if you struggle with any of these things.

And this is... horrible.

Time investment based on luck, where you have to invest time AND take your slim chances in a leveling process, that's really splendid.
I don't hear either, and maybe for a reason.
So tell me, how would a non-RNG-gated leveling progress ruin the competition?
Please don't confuse gear with leveling, all that what you've counted would still be present and unaffected.
That is not a hardcore feel, that is a gambling feel, nothing hardcore in that.

Have I said anything about free gear or anything else but leveling? Don't bring that up, please.


See how many times have I typed "leveling" and "leveling process".

"

tinko92 wrote:

I wasn't expecting this, eh.

Really? It's the most obvious answer. Why buy a benz over a entry model ford? Both get you where you need to go, both (should be) are reliable. It's just some people can afford the pretty one with more features. No one NEEDS a benz but people can, so they do.

"

You're comparing genetics which is predetermined and a random occurrences which happen along the way, genetics doesn't change during the race.

Your "natural" gifts have nothing to do with map drops, but with buying maps. Except that part "how to run maps", talking about rolling or running maps?
If you're talking about rolling, then yes, it gives a slight chance of better map drops.
Running? I don't believe you meant in that way.

Size of map pool has nothing to do with map drops, even huge pools are going to deplete eventually (if there is anyone who never bought maps, not participated in public fee parties, who could keep his 76-78 map pool and reached 97+ level, please respond and verify).

Dieing also has nothing to do with map drops.

Genetics doesn't change, but in some races they are so meaningful it doesn't matter how much training you show up with, you're going to lose. I remember some dude who could 6l items in under 10 fusings, like constantly. He had a shop fill with white ilvl 78 6l vaals, at least 10-20 of them. Nothing you do will ever match his luck. Some people get the shit end of the stick, regardless of what they do, they'll never get to average. Generally when it's that bad GGG balances it out but some people will always be at a disadvantage.

The running thing was a bad edit. I'm a little out of it atm, there really should be many more mistakes so I'm actual surprised there aren't.

Size of map pool had a ton to do with map drops. This is why people fail so miserably at mapping. I have kept forward progression leveling my toon from 79 to 90 1/2, going from 69 maps to 75s. I cycle 3 level maps, and doing my system I have never dropped below my lowest map in the tier out of necessity. The only time I do is when playing my laptop and all I have are maps with hard bosses. I rather run a lower map that I won't die on than a map I should be running and probably die to lag, as my laptop is a toaster.

"

But, your profession has so many little things in common, I could single out only the hard work you've mentioned, as referring to rolling maps.

Mfing, trading and map management are different things. I MFed for myself, before I put everything up for trade I probably had 10-20 pages of gear reserved for niche ideas I had. There's passive and active trading, and even variations of that. Using procurement, just throwing everything up is much different than setting an individual, researched b/o on every item is different than spamming trade chat for hours. I think proper map management is what separates people like me never having to buy a map and others having to buy every single map or do pubs to stay over 67s.

"

I'd like some verifications, links, "evidences" of actual currency sinking into a leveling process.

1. I said ubers were after my time. So don't look at me, I just remember seeing someone say they costed like X SOJs or eqv or something like that.

2. You aren't paying orbs for experience, period, you're paying for speed. Like I said previously, you can get the same exp from running 66s as 1 78, it just takes a hell of a lot longer.

"

"My sword is bigger than yours" aren't of my concerns.
You claimed that non-RNG based leveling would ruin things for everyone, but then again, why are people playing other games then PoE? If the leveling process isn't RNG based and it's ruined for them.

Bolded part... people don't go for higher levels because it's expensive RNG based degenerate system.
There is no knowledge or effort, it's 95% luck and the other 5% would be the map rolling. (pulled those numbers out of my ass)

No, we aren't in an argument about non-RNG leveling, you're asking for higher level maps to be easier to sustain. There's a difference. Like I said earlier, at this time the game isn't designed for play over lvl 85, and it's to do with the fact that normal content ends at 68. Once that goes higher I suspect the intended end is 90. At which point everything beyond is just extra, for personal achievement, bragging rights, or whatever. The same as D2. Once you beat the game, you could either keep going to 99 or just stop, it was up to you. There's no requirement to go to 99, and the devs don't expect it either.

Like I said previously (I'm noticing a theme of repeating myself, I might not be the problem here), I've been climbing the map ladder without buying maps, paying for them myself with shit I find from maps and how I run them means there's very little luck involved. You must hate casinos too then huh? If it's all luck how to people make legit livings doing it?

"

And this is... horrible.

Time investment based on luck, where you have to invest time AND take your slim chances in a leveling process, that's really splendid.
I don't hear either, and maybe for a reason.
So tell me, how would a non-RNG-gated leveling progress ruin the competition?
Please don't confuse gear with leveling, all that what you've counted would still be present and unaffected.
That is not a hardcore feel, that is a gambling feel, nothing hardcore in that.

Have I said anything about free gear or anything else but leveling? Don't bring that up, please.


See how many times have I typed "leveling" and "leveling process".

But you aren't talking about the leveling process for all players, you're talking about a select minority that wants to go over lvl 85-90. Who can't complete the game because experience is gated behind RNG? Maps are extra, the end game is never a requirement, it's what people can do if they want to continue their character.

Having maps allows for different strategies in racing. You can see it. There's some guys who take the policy of risk it all, rush to high level maps. Some who will move slower up the chain so they never have to move down. Some who try to do both, move slowly but take their shot here and there. These strategies never come out if the highest experience you can get is from specter of god runs, period. The goal is then, get to specter asap, stay until race is over, spend as little time in town as possible.

Maps and an RNG end game in general, allows for a dynamic end game experience. Two people racing can suddenly have a good run or a bad run. It's how I got my demigod in CB actually. My teammates and I caught a string of 66+ maps the last 6 hours of the race, bringing us from 10th, 11th and 12th to 6th, 7th and 8th. It's not like we didn't earn our place there, just luck at the end allowed for a boost. It's more exciting. If exp was constant, then the person in 11th place would never be able to sneak into 10th unless 10th's exp/hour slowed down. 15th place NEVER has a shot. But with this system, some luck, 15th can catch a string of luck and make his way into 10th or higher possibly.

RNG is the stamina of a foot race. Some people can sprint for a long time, others depend on their second wind. It's the "luck" factor in foot races. The unpredictable constant that seems driven more by will than by training, therefore uncontrollable.

"

Moosifer wrote:

Really? It's the most obvious answer. Why buy a benz over a entry model ford? Both get you where you need to go, both (should be) are reliable. It's just some people can afford the pretty one with more features. No one NEEDS a benz but people can, so they do.

Really, I'm not into "because I say so" discussions.

Fair enough, can you answer to this:
Why can't people do hard content if they can handle?

"

Genetics doesn't change, but in some races they are so meaningful it doesn't matter how much training you show up with, you're going to lose. I remember some dude who could 6l items in under 10 fusings, like constantly. He had a shop fill with white ilvl 78 6l vaals, at least 10-20 of them. Nothing you do will ever match his luck. Some people get the shit end of the stick, regardless of what they do, they'll never get to average. Generally when it's that bad GGG balances it out but some people will always be at a disadvantage.

In a infinite period of time everybody have the same luck. Therefore, it's incomparable with genetics, as genetics are predetermined.

"

Size of map pool had a ton to do with map drops. This is why people fail so miserably at mapping. I have kept forward progression leveling my toon from 79 to 90 1/2, going from 69 maps to 75s. I cycle 3 level maps, and doing my system I have never dropped below my lowest map in the tier out of necessity. The only time I do is when playing my laptop and all I have are maps with hard bosses. I rather run a lower map that I won't die on than a map I should be running and probably die to lag, as my laptop is a toaster.

No, the amount of maps in your stash has nothing to do with future map drops.
So what, now you're telling me that if you cycle 3 level maps (whatever that means) you can't run out of maps?

Back to that cycling... 3 maps cycle as you play 3x69, then 3x70, etc.?

Although, it's not important, because it also doesn't affect map drops.
But if you prove me that it does, I'll give it a shot, 3x77 - 3x78 - 3x77 ... etc.

"

Mfing, trading and map management are different things. I MFed for myself, before I put everything up for trade I probably had 10-20 pages of gear reserved for niche ideas I had. There's passive and active trading, and even variations of that. Using procurement, just throwing everything up is much different than setting an individual, researched b/o on every item is different than spamming trade chat for hours. I think proper map management is what separates people like me never having to buy a map and others having to buy every single map or do pubs to stay over 67s.

After that irrelevant explanations of trading, we're back at map management.
Tell me your secret, what do I need to do to keep my map pool? I badly want to play, really, that's why I'm hanging around on the forum in vain.

"

1. I said ubers were after my time. So don't look at me, I just remember seeing someone say they costed like X SOJs or eqv or something like that.

2. You aren't paying orbs for experience, period, you're paying for speed. Like I said previously, you can get the same exp from running 66s as 1 78, it just takes a hell of a lot longer.

1.
We'll I'd like to look at anyone who points me to a this kind of game that has this degenerate system.

2.
Looks like I'm repeating myself too, why some people pay more and some people pay less, for a leveling process?

"

No, we aren't in an argument about non-RNG leveling, you're asking for higher level maps to be easier to sustain. There's a difference. Like I said earlier, at this time the game isn't designed for play over lvl 85, and it's to do with the fact that normal content ends at 68. Once that goes higher I suspect the intended end is 90. At which point everything beyond is just extra, for personal achievement, bragging rights, or whatever. The same as D2. Once you beat the game, you could either keep going to 99 or just stop, it was up to you. There's no requirement to go to 99, and the devs don't expect it either.

Really? We aren't?
Quote me where I was asking for more high level maps.

Please answer to this question:
"why some people pay more and some people pay less, for a leveling process?"

I've asked it too many times and every time I get the same stuff, which has nothing to do with my question nor have I ever said that it's not like that.

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Like I said previously (I'm noticing a theme of repeating myself, I might not be the problem here), I've been climbing the map ladder without buying maps, paying for them myself with shit I find from maps and how I run them means there's very little luck involved. You must hate casinos too then huh? If it's all luck how to people make legit livings doing it?

Reply to this can be read up.

Gambling is called gambling for a reason, it's about luck, what more should I say?

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But you aren't talking about the leveling process for all players, you're talking about a select minority that wants to go over lvl 85-90. Who can't complete the game because experience is gated behind RNG? Maps are extra, the end game is never a requirement, it's what people can do if they want to continue their character.

Also, reply to this can be read up.

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Having maps allows for different strategies in racing. You can see it. There's some guys who take the policy of risk it all, rush to high level maps. Some who will move slower up the chain so they never have to move down. Some who try to do both, move slowly but take their shot here and there. These strategies never come out if the highest experience you can get is from specter of god runs, period. The goal is then, get to specter asap, stay until race is over, spend as little time in town as possible.

Why are you even mentioning these strategies? We're talking about map pools and sustaining them in higher level maps.
Almost everybody rolls map the same way, as map itself costs 1+ ex, so it's a primary goal to get a refund and stay in game.

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Maps and an RNG end game in general, allows for a dynamic end game experience. Two people racing can suddenly have a good run or a bad run. It's how I got my demigod in CB actually. My teammates and I caught a string of 66+ maps the last 6 hours of the race, bringing us from 10th, 11th and 12th to 6th, 7th and 8th. It's not like we didn't earn our place there, just luck at the end allowed for a boost. It's more exciting. If exp was constant, then the person in 11th place would never be able to sneak into 10th unless 10th's exp/hour slowed down. 15th place NEVER has a shot. But with this system, some luck, 15th can catch a string of luck and make his way into 10th or higher possibly.

RNG is the stamina of a foot race. Some people can sprint for a long time, others depend on their second wind. It's the "luck" factor in foot races. The unpredictable constant that seems driven more by will than by training, therefore uncontrollable.

You were saying about minority of 85+ players and now you bring up races, really?

I don't want to discuss about races, that RNG based leveling process can stay in them, since it brings excitement.