Updated 2/19/2014 Anti-RMT Self-Found Tags for ALL Leagues in All Windows + SF Maps (other details)

So basicly... since the SF league got shot down by devs, you are suggesting that we can play SF and brag about it simply by having an SF tag in our names / based on having traded with other players or not?

In effect - allowing people that play SF - to play it in ANY league and thus not segregating players - and at the same time give us the bragging rights of playing SF in these leagues with a simple and easy to code ID tag?

If this is the case, pure genious. Hoping the the devs will take note!
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Ouroboros226 wrote:
So basicly... since the SF league got shot down by devs, you are suggesting that we can play SF and brag about it simply by having an SF tag in our names / based on having traded with other players or not?

In effect - allowing people that play SF - to play it in ANY league and thus not segregating players - and at the same time give us the bragging rights of playing SF in these leagues with a simple and easy to code ID tag?

If this is the case, pure genious. Hoping the the devs will take note!


Call it bragging rights if you want, but yes, in any league players can have a SF Tag. It's not just for saying, "Look at me, I got an SF Tag and you don't!" Players who bear an SF Tag are forced not to Trade since if they do Trade someone, their SF Tag will disappear.

This is why in the Character Creation Screen (I should probably illustrate some text in the OP's image) there is an option to Enable / Disable Trade Requests so you don't trade anyone by accident.
When game developers ignore the criticism that would improve their game, the game fails.
Just because a game receives a great amount of praise vs. only a small amount of criticism
does not mean to call it a day and make a foolish misplaced assumption that it is perfect.
(me)
Last edited by HeavyMetalGear#2712 on Feb 17, 2014, 11:28:11 PM
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Perfect_Black wrote:
They would have to replace any non self-found items with self-found items. It is not that trivial or meaningless to say at end-game (lvl 80+ or so) that 'every item I am wearing and holding was found by me'. To be able to plow through end-game content with that SF tag would not be meaningless, imo.

Maybe there is too much leeway with my ideas, but I prefer options and flexibility to restrictions.


Just by what you said in the above quoted is a terrible idea.

So what you're proposing is if a player starts out as SF with a SF Tag, they can then take off their SF-tagged gear and wear non SF-tagged gear, vice versa, when they want without losing their SF Tag?

That defeats the purpose of having a SF Tag since such actions (regarding my idea for SF tags) violates everything and makes your SF Tag disappear.

What your ideas allow is for players to be able to be SF-tagged for a little while, become a non SF-tagged player by leveling with gear that's not SF-tagged, then become a SF-tagged player AGAIN by wearing your SF-tagged gear.

To put it briefly, doing the above does not define a SF-tagged player. It makes no sense not to be SF-tagged most of the time, and only be SF-tagged some of the time.
When game developers ignore the criticism that would improve their game, the game fails.
Just because a game receives a great amount of praise vs. only a small amount of criticism
does not mean to call it a day and make a foolish misplaced assumption that it is perfect.
(me)
Last edited by HeavyMetalGear#2712 on Feb 17, 2014, 1:45:53 AM
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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
What your ideas allow is for players to be able to be SF-tagged for a little while, become a non SF-tagged player by leveling with gear that's not SF-tagged, then become a SF-tagged player AGAIN by wearing your SF-tagged gear.

You are correct, I'm proposing that players could wear gear not found by them without permanently losing their SF tag.

On the flip side, your ideas would not even allow a character to temporarily hold a non SF item without losing its SF tag forever, even if the character never slays a monster while holding the item. For example, a player could not equip a non SF item to see how it affects a character's tool tip numbers without permanently losing the character's SF tag. Your ideas go a step further to not even allow a SF player to give away an item without permanently losing a character's SF tag.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
It makes no sense not to be SF-tagged most of the time, and only be SF-tagged some of the time.

I agree with this statement.

I am going to add to my ideas that any items looted by a character while wearing even just 1 non SF item could not be considered SF items. It wouldn't be right to allow items found while in a non SF state to be considered SF items.

So, if you have leveled up a character to say, level 80, and the character has been in a non SF state the majority of the time, then most, if not all, of the items that you have accumulated from that character would not be SF items. Therefore, to re-acquire a SF tag on that character would be quite difficult and time consuming because you would have to equip only items that were found while in a SF state, and you were not in one very long, so you did not accumulate many SF items. Basically, at level 80, you would be equipping complete trash leveling gear and essentially starting over to work your way up the gear hierarchy.
TY to those who called me out on my BS on these forums. There is no benefit to being so selfish as to fail to acknowledge others' differing beliefs of what "should be" or believe your own opinions so supreme as to be factual and thus dismiss others' opinions as being somehow a lie or delusional.
Last edited by Perfect_Black#6704 on Feb 17, 2014, 4:00:07 AM
I wouldn't say I'm against self-found tags in general, but the idea of seeing this brightly-colored icon all over the place is... nauseating.

Let's put this in perspective. If you win a race, you don't get any special icons by your name. If you are #1 on the ladder, you don't get any special icon by your name.

I'm all for a self-found ladder which players can look up on the website. I'm all for items saying they haven't been traded (using the text "untraded," in the exact same font and exact same location one might find the text "mirrored"). But you don't need absolutely everyone you interact with to know about your trading patterns (or lack thereof), and more importantly, all this flashy My Little Pony color shit is pissing me off.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
I wouldn't say I'm against self-found tags in general, but the idea of seeing this brightly-colored icon all over the place is... nauseating.

Let's put this in perspective. If you win a race, you don't get any special icons by your name. If you are #1 on the ladder, you don't get any special icon by your name.

I'm all for a self-found ladder which players can look up on the website. I'm all for items saying they haven't been traded (using the text "untraded," in the exact same font and exact same location one might find the text "mirrored"). But you don't need absolutely everyone you interact with to know about your trading patterns (or lack thereof), and more importantly, all this flashy My Little Pony color shit is pissing me off.


A Self-Found ladder would require a Self-Found League. On another note, races are forever changing and are not permanent, so whatever icons, etc. you do get are bound to change all the time, especially since there's always new races that come around.

On the other hand, the SF Tag feature would be permanent and wouldn't change at all if implemented into PoE.

Whether you're on PoE's site or playing in PoE, anyone can see you're a SF player if you've maintained your SF Tag. There are also a great many other people in this community who would disagree with you in which they would want to display their SF Tag in-game, and also want to see the SF tags of other players without having a problem with it like you do.

However, since you're so against visibly seeing these tags in-game, there could be an option to turn off the visibility of people's SF tags.

Furthermore, the yellow color for the SF Tag was more fitting than other colors since blue, red, and green are very unfitting. But you're such an artist; what color would you recommend other than the yellow I picked? OR is the yellow color I picked not to your liking because it's too bright instead of dark?

Honestly (I have seen you before in these forums,) I was expecting better feedback from you since you really didn't add to the idea of SF tags to improve it. Instead, you're more for doing away with it completely yet sugarcoat it by saying, "I wouldn't say I'm against self-found tags in general..." Wrong. You're completely against the idea of SF tags (admit it) since the idea of SF tags has everything to do with displaying them in-game, not just on PoE's site.

What I really want to hear from you and others is what's truly wrong with this idea other than what your personal preference says regarding how it looks. I would rather a 'looks' problem (if it's really a problem) rather than a Self-Found League problem for reasons already stated in the OP, the very reasons GGG will never make a Self-Found League.
When game developers ignore the criticism that would improve their game, the game fails.
Just because a game receives a great amount of praise vs. only a small amount of criticism
does not mean to call it a day and make a foolish misplaced assumption that it is perfect.
(me)
Last edited by HeavyMetalGear#2712 on Feb 18, 2014, 1:37:25 AM
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Perfect_Black wrote:
You are correct, I'm proposing that players could wear gear not found by them without permanently losing their SF tag.


Don't you understand that if a SF-tagged player is able to wear / level up with gear that's not SF-tagged that it contradicts what being SF-tagged is all about, which is not to trade other players nor wear gear that is not SF-tagged?

I know I sound like a broken record (which is why I took a 2-month break from this thread,) but I'll do my best throughout this reply to explain things a little differently.

"
Perfect_Black wrote:
On the flip side, your ideas would not even allow a character to temporarily hold a non SF item without losing its SF tag forever, even if the character never slays a monster while holding the item. For example, a player could not equip a non SF item to see how it affects a character's tool tip numbers without permanently losing the character's SF tag. Your ideas go a step further to not even allow a SF player to give away an item without permanently losing a character's SF tag.


I'll say it again until I'm blue, green, and purple in the face... IF a SF-tagged player is allowed in any way, shape, or form to drop-trade, hold, wear, or window trade gear that is not SF-tagged, it would then contradict the idea of a SF Tag and violate the rules of SF, which is not to trade with other players nor wear gear that's not SF-tagged.

SF-tagged players (in my idea) cannot pick up items that are not SF-tagged for the very reason a SF-tagged player can equip gear that is not SF-tagged by accident after dropped by a non SF-tagged player, especially if they have the option enabled to automatically equip items.

On another note, SF-tagged players that are able to pick up gear that's not SF-tagged would tempt players to wear that gear in which they lose their SF Tag.

It's simply not allowed.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
It makes no sense not to be SF-tagged most of the time, and only be SF-tagged some of the time.


"
Perfect_Black wrote:
I agree with this statement.

I am going to add to my ideas that any items looted by a character while wearing even just 1 non SF item could not be considered SF items. It wouldn't be right to allow items found while in a non SF state to be considered SF items.


You keep forgetting that items picked up by a SF-tagged character becomes SF-tagged, and therefore, it is impossible for a SF-tagged character to loot non SF-tagged items in that when they're picked up they become SF-tagged.

When I say looted, what I mean is what happens after a SF-tagged character picks up items.

Furthermore to the above stated, the only way a character can loot non SF-tagged gear is if your character does not have a SF Tag, and so when items are picked up by a character without a SF Tag, those items do not become SF-tagged.

"
Perfect_Black wrote:
So, if you have leveled up a character to say, level 80, and the character has been in a non SF state the majority of the time, then most, if not all, of the items that you have accumulated from that character would not be SF items. Therefore, to re-acquire a SF tag on that character would be quite difficult and time consuming because you would have to equip only items that were found while in a SF state, and you were not in one very long, so you did not accumulate many SF items. Basically, at level 80, you would be equipping complete trash leveling gear and essentially starting over to work your way up the gear hierarchy.


So what you're saying is if you're level 80 and lost your SF Tag 40 levels ago, yet you want to be SF-tagged again even though the majority of the time you've been a non SF-tagged player, you would then not have the gear to prove you're a SF-tagged player since most of your gear is not SF-tagged?

Think about this: who is to say a level 80 player who regains their SF Tag (displayed in all windows again) is not going to lie by not showing their gear? My point is in your idea, players can regain their SF Tag all they want, but just because they're SF-tagged again (after not being SF-tagged for 40 levels) does not mean they are a legit Self-Found player.

The problem with your idea is you're going to have a problem with a bunch of players in-game asking for proof from other players saying, "Prove you got SF-tagged gear that meets your level."

Failure to do that would then prove you're not really a Self-Found player. You would be considered a wannabe SF-tagged player through the leniency of being able to get your SF Tag back at anytime.

In my idea, this is not a problem in that players screaming, "Prove it!" would never happen.
When game developers ignore the criticism that would improve their game, the game fails.
Just because a game receives a great amount of praise vs. only a small amount of criticism
does not mean to call it a day and make a foolish misplaced assumption that it is perfect.
(me)
Last edited by HeavyMetalGear#2712 on Feb 18, 2014, 1:31:13 AM
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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
A Self-Found ladder would require a Self-Found League.
That's not what I meant; I meant a web page like this one for each league, but only dealing with SF-eligible characters.
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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
However, since you're so against visibly seeing these tags in-game, there could be an option to turn off the visibility of people's SF tags.
Not a bad idea, although I'm strongly torn internally on whether the default option should be visible or invisible. I'd slightly prefer a different option, if one presents itself, instead of falling back on this, just for that reason. But it is nevertheless viable and the best idea regarding this I'm aware of at the moment, so until I can think of something better, I approve. (And I might never think of anything better.)
"
HeavyMetalGear wrote:
Honestly (I have seen you before in these forums,) I was expecting better feedback from you since you really didn't add to the idea of SF tags to improve it. Instead, you're more for doing away with it completely yet sugarcoat it by saying, "I wouldn't say I'm against self-found tags in general..." Wrong. You're completely against the idea of SF tags (admit it) since the idea of SF tags has everything to do with displaying them in-game, not just on PoE's site.

When I'm completely against an idea, trust me, you'll know. I'm many things, but soft-spoken is not one of them. And I'm certainly not scared of you enough to feel any need to hide my opinion.

The reason I come off as somewhat tempted to support this suggestion, but wrestling with some doubts, is because: I am somewhat tempted to support this suggestion, but wrestling with some doubts.

My concern with icons such as these is kind of a slippery slope argument. We already have the numerical challenge icons in front of names, then we'd be adding a new icon which would be appealing to a particular interest group. If it ends there, I assure you: I have no problem with icons I don't like seeing, especially if I have an internal option to turn off visibility. However, if it doesn't end there, and the username default view ends up having as much flair as a Chotchkie's waitress, with a complicated menu to manage visibility of all the different icons, well, that would suck.

But I acknowledge fully the fact that slippery slope arguments, by their very nature, are kind of paranoid. Also, believe it or not, I actually am a big fan of self-found; the bloodiest wars are civil wars, which I guess is why I'm so against a self-found league. So I'm tempted to tentatively approve this one, and if the need arises fight against different proposals for tags in the future.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Feb 18, 2014, 1:08:33 AM
@HeavyMetalGear

I haven't read anywhere how a SF tag will solve the problem of map groups. Will SF players be able to party with a map group that has traded for the resources used for the maps?
ScrotieMcB quotes HeavyMetalGear

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
A Self-Found ladder would require a Self-Found League.


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ScrotieMcB wrote:
That's not what I meant; I meant a web page like this one for each league, but only dealing with SF-eligible characters.


"
HeavyMetalGear wrote:
I get what you're saying now, but as I said, my idea involves SF tags being displayed in-game and not just on a ladder page since the gratification of in-game SF tags is a lot more faster than players having to look through the ladder page.

Just having Self-Found statistics being available only on a ladder page doesn't really give much awareness to players in-game that these SF tags exist (if we strictly went by your way.)


ScrotieMcB quotes HeavyMetalGear

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
However, since you're so against visibly seeing these tags in-game, there could be an option to turn off the visibility of people's SF tags.


"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
Not a bad idea, although I'm strongly torn internally on whether the default option should be visible or invisible. I'd slightly prefer a different option, if one presents itself, instead of falling back on this, just for that reason. But it is nevertheless viable and the best idea regarding this I'm aware of at the moment, so until I can think of something better, I approve. (And I might never think of anything better.)


"
HeavyMetalGear wrote:
Your idea of a better idea to overrule the better idea via the optional to Enable / Disable the visibility of SF tags is to not have them in the game whatsoever...

There is no other better idea. The option to Enable / Disable (anything people don't like) is about as good as it gets. But please, if you have a spectacular idea that's much better other than throwing the SF Tag idea completely out the window, let me know.


ScrotieMcB quotes HeavyMetalGear

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
Honestly (I have seen you before in these forums,) I was expecting better feedback from you since you really didn't add to the idea of SF tags to improve it. Instead, you're more for doing away with it completely yet sugarcoat it by saying, "I wouldn't say I'm against self-found tags in general..." Wrong. You're completely against the idea of SF tags (admit it) since the idea of SF tags has everything to do with displaying them in-game, not just on PoE's site.


see obnoxious, overrated image



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ScrotieMcB wrote:
When I'm completely against an idea, trust me, you'll know. I'm many things, but soft-spoken is not one of them. And I'm certainly not scared of you enough to feel any need to hide my opinion.


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HeavyMetalGear wrote:
I guess we have something in common. I'm straightforward and not soft-spoken, either.

Where did whether or not you're scared of me come into the picture here? I don't want anyone (including you) to be scared of me or be a coward. I want people with a prepared brain to come at me with everything they got!

That's the only way ideas get improved through discussion, but I need viable feedback, not biased feedback so as to want to away with an idea that's actually feasible.


"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
The reason I come off as somewhat tempted to support this suggestion, but wrestling with some doubts, is because: I am somewhat tempted to support this suggestion, but wrestling with some doubts.

My concern with icons such as these is kind of a slippery slope argument. We already have the numerical challenge icons in front of names, then we'd be adding a new icon which would be appealing to a particular interest group. If it ends there, I assure you: I have no problem with icons I don't like seeing, especially if I have an internal option to turn off visibility. However, if it doesn't end there, and the username default view ends up having as much flair as a Chotchkie's waitress, with a complicated menu to manage visibility of all the different icons, well, that would suck.


"
HeavyMetalGear wrote:
Of course if there was an option to Enable / Disable the visibility of SF tags it would turn ON / OFF all SF tags in all windows.


"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
But I acknowledge fully the fact that slippery slope arguments, by their very nature, are kind of paranoid. Also, believe it or not, I actually am a big fan of self-found; the bloodiest wars are civil wars, which I guess is why I'm so against a self-found league. So I'm tempted to tentatively approve this one, and if the need arises fight against different proposals for tags in the future.


"
HeavyMetalGear wrote:
I can assure you through further discussion be it with you or other PoE users here, this thread will only get better. It's already late (for me,) but tomorrow I will add to my OP regarding the option to Enable / Disable SF Tag visibility in all windows.


P.S. Thank you for your input, even if we don't agree on certain things.
When game developers ignore the criticism that would improve their game, the game fails.
Just because a game receives a great amount of praise vs. only a small amount of criticism
does not mean to call it a day and make a foolish misplaced assumption that it is perfect.
(me)

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